Moving through Midlife | Helping Midlife Women Move Better and Feel Better

151 | Conflict Resolution Skills for Midlife Challenges: Transforming your Relationships with Karleen Savage

• Courtney McManus

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Transform your approach to conflict resolution with insights from Karleene, a seasoned hostage negotiator. Discover the techniques that Karleene uses to navigate everyday conflicts, drawn from her personal experiences balancing a household with a brain-injured husband and seven children. You’ll uncover the five foundational principles she swears by—curiosity, attitude, master listening, connection, and reframing—to control emotional reactions and maintain constructive dialogue.

Explore the nuanced dynamics of parenting styles and conflict resolution in our discussion. We delve into the balance between authoritative and nurturing approaches, highlighting the importance of understanding and addressing inner conflicts before they manifest outwardly. Karleene’s professional insights and personal anecdotes illustrate the transformative power of ongoing dialogue and open communication in navigating fears and insecurities, and fostering healthier relationships.

In a heartfelt chapter, Karleene shares a pivotal moment of self-reflection during a marriage crisis, underscoring the importance of vulnerability and open communication. Learn how a simple 15-minute conversation can foster deeper connections and understanding in your relationships. Plus, explore the valuable resources and training programs available on Karleene Savage's website, designed to enhance your parenting skills and personal growth. This episode is packed with practical tips and enlightening stories to help you navigate midlife with grace and resilience.

You can find Karleene at: 
www.karleensavage.com/parents

Head to www.movingthroughmidlife. com to learn more

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Moving Through Midlife. I am your host, courtney, a personal trainer and movement specialist who wants to help you move through midlife with more grace. Each week, we will discuss ways we can show up better for ourselves and our children without the burnout, children without the burnout. We will focus on overall health through habit stacking to help increase energy, provide movement snacks to help you move more throughout the day, while also moving your body more, and learn from professionals on moving through midlife with ease so that you can feel confident with aging. Gracefully, grab your earbuds and join me on a leisurely walk while we discuss moving through midlife. Today, I am speaking with Carlene about the art of conflict resolution in your everyday life. She is a certified hostage negotiator who shares her unique experience of managing a household with a brain-injured husband and raising seven children. She is here to share with us components of effective conflict resolution to help deal with teenage independence and everyday emotional reactions. This is a great conversation and I really hope you enjoy it. Hi, carlene, how are you today? Yeah, I'm so good.

Speaker 2:

And we had a pre-call and that was even fire. That was good.

Speaker 1:

I am excited to have you on because you are here to share about. Spoken about different situations. I saw that you were on MSNBC talking about the hostage situation that occurred in Gaza, so you've been in situations where you have helped people with hostage negotiations.

Speaker 2:

Let me be clear. I'm certainly in hostage negotiations. I have not been on a live hostage situation, which a lot of us haven't, but there's certain agencies that must be trained in it. I have not been on a live hostage situation, which a lot of us haven't, but we there's certain agencies that must be trained in it. I'm not one of the agencies. So your, your counterterrorism, your FBI, your SWAT teams, your police departments, they have to have somebody trained to handle those things. But hostage, hostage situations don't happen everywhere, but we're certified in it. So I go to the same, all the same things, and then I brought it to the realm of the work I do.

Speaker 1:

So and you're able to then talk about conflict resolution and things that you can do to help among other things.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, okay, crisis negotiations, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and what? What got you started in this?

Speaker 2:

My, my own, my own hot mess. I have a husband who has a brain injury. That happened about 30 years ago. I have seven children. We've taken in teen, other teenagers, we've had people living with us and nobody comes with their basket, their party basket. Everybody's coming with their baggage. I've got to understand the difference between party baskets and baggage, anyway. So they come and really, at the end of the day, it's how the people leave our home, which is pretty interesting as I look at it over time. And so you and I are having a conversation about conflict, but it happens everywhere. So, but I came to it by my, my own experiences.

Speaker 1:

So Okay, and I was watching your TED talk and you had mentioned your husband's injuries and how you had come about this and I thought it was interesting when you started talking about this conflict resolution and there were, you mentioned five things that you need to think about when you go into conflict resolution, correct? Can you go over the five things really quickly for me?

Speaker 2:

One of them is curiosity. It's a certain kind of curiosity. Next one is attitude, which is stand there, be with it, but don't fix it. Next one is master listening, which is story mapping, or filling in the gaps in hostility, filling in the gaps of their storytelling. The next one is connection it's a way to make sure that they're receiving the message, that you're getting it. And the last one is reframing, which is taking all the information and then asking a question about how are we going to fix this? How is it going to look if we're both happy in this situation?

Speaker 1:

Okay, and before we spoke, or before we came on here, we spoke privately and there's two things I want to kind of discuss with you, the first being in regard to conflict resolution with our children, and especially during these teen years, when our kids are really starting to create some dependence and wanting to really kind of listen to their inner self you know they start to push back against us and then also a conversation that we spoke about, which is also the conflict within our own head. So I do want to start with our children, first, our teens, because I thought it was interesting during your TED Talk, you had mentioned something about how we show emotion and how we really should try to refrain from showing our emotion while we're listening to our child speak about certain things, and I was a little taken aback by that, because I am very animated when I communicate, I'm sure, with my children. So can you tell me, like, what exactly you meant by that?

Speaker 2:

Sure, I am really animated too, and you'll. You'll see exactly what I'm thinking right on my face, and I think that that's the reason in when you're talking about mediation and crisis and hostage, you cannot show the emotion. However, how you translate that in your personal life is that when you frown when somebody is saying you hurt my feelings or you defend, you get that shocked look on your face. When they say you said that you said something horrible to me. When you get that shocked look on their face, it will change their story. It will become defensive instantly and then try and figure out what am I going to say to defend my position, and then it's going to go into a tailspin. And so that's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2:

When you're in conflict, you need to be able to learn conflict. You need to be able to learn. Do exceptional learning not about agenda, not about expressing. You know you said that you don't like me not expressing that whole. You know getting ticked off with somebody. It is about holding the space so you can learn about why they're taking that position.

Speaker 1:

So how do we do this when we are dealing with our own emotions? Because it's really hard, I mean. I think in certain situations, if you are not a part of that situation, you may not have the emotion with it, but when it's your own household and you're working with child and who is your everything I mean truly, they are everything to you how, how do you go about doing that, to where you have to put your emotions aside? Is there a way that we can work through that?

Speaker 2:

Okay. So I totally get this. This is a tough world. It is when it is you. When it is your world, it is tough, no joke. But then my question is you made the comment and your listeners are. I think it's a profound question, and, and your listeners are doing the same, wait a minute, how do you, how do I do it in my own life? Are you kidding? That really made me angry. They're accusing me or they're doing this, or I'm scared. Okay, then admit that.

Speaker 2:

Okay, the problem is is that we're not admitting that. We're not admitting oh, that hurt. Oh, you hurt my feelings. Oh, I'm scared, oh, I'm too afraid to lose you. Oh, we're not saying those words. What we're doing is going. Now imagine I'm talking to my head oh my gosh, I'm so afraid to lose you. You can't go, and that's the way it looks. We're not discussing our truth, and that's the problem.

Speaker 2:

So, when we're getting involved, we love our kids, we do all these things. Do you love them enough to get real about this? Do you love them enough to make them the important person in the room and not you? Do we love them? And that's a problem, and I say that very boldly because people are going to go. Of course I love my child. I will put them first, will you? Will you in the conflict? Do we love them? And that's a problem, and I say that very boldly because people are going to go. Well, of course I love my child. I will put them first, will you? Will you in the conflict? Will you to the point that you're going to say, ah, and tears streaming down your face? That crushed me. And you do that because if you can do that before you react, because if you can do that before you react, then you are truthful.

Speaker 2:

And the problem is is that when we say we can't do it in our own lives, it's too hard and it's because there's a conversation that happens before you actually open your mouth. It's the conversation in your head, which is what you and I were talking about. It's a conversation in your head and sometimes, like I've heard dad say, I can't say that. I'm in charge of the house, this is my domain. I've heard those things said. So they're not going to say truth, they're going to say reaction. So which is it that you're doing? Are you reacting or are you speaking truth? And so it's up to you to decide. Is it hard? Yes, do you love your children? Yes, will you put your children first in the situation? If you're willing to say yes to that, then what you're willing to do is be truthful about the space. And what that means is I just had this conversation with this other other woman yesterday and she was saying if my mom, if she's feeling, if she's feeling this and she can't, just she just can't do it, then then that's not wrong.

Speaker 2:

She can't do it. And she said so why would you expect her to? Why do we, should we expect them to? And I, I said why was she? Why was she scared? And she went oh, wait a minute. And I said that's where it begins. It doesn't begin when it comes out of our mouth. It began up here. So when you are scared, snapping, why are you snapping? Why are you snapping at your kid? You're, you know your teenager.

Speaker 2:

Tell that truth and then say now I'm mad. But a lot of times what we do is we would go I'm mad, how dare you? You don't speak to me that way. And I would tell my kids you can speak to me, you can tell me anything, just do it with respect, don't shred me, but tell me. So. It would be that premise that I would go in at. So another one would be I would sit there and I'd go, oh my gosh, ouch. Or I'd instantly weep Like I've only had one child tell me I hate you one time in their life. And how many of us people say I hear it all the time, oh my gosh, then do you tell the truth, do you? Are you that parent? So the first. When my child did it, she was three years old. Now think about it. Are we going to hold a three-year-old accountable? Are we going to hold ourselves accountable in the moment?

Speaker 2:

So she went hauling upstairs. She'd been in a flux, there'd been a lot of changes in her life, she was stressed I get it Three years old. And some people are going to say, oh my gosh, that's just terrible that you would hold them three years old. She's able to understand because she was crying and screaming. So something's coming. If I'm not willing to own up to it and answer that, then that's on me.

Speaker 2:

So she went hauling upstairs. I hate you. I went hauling after her and I grabbed her like grabbed her. Tears streaming down my face and I said that crushed me. Why would you say that I love you. You mean more to me than anything and you, even though she can't understand every conceptual thing, she heard my heart and I said that crushed me. If you are unhappy, tell me. If you're angry, tell me. If you're mad, tell me, and I showed her. If you feel this way, tell me, but don't scream that. And I've never heard it again, ever. I never heard it out of our other children. The thing is is that I was willing to stand in the truth for the minute. I was willing to show myself. Are we willing to do that as parents? I have parents that say I don't think I can do that. Okay, then what does that mean for you? Okay, there's a price. There's going to be a price, right?

Speaker 1:

So anyway, it's a lot. Well, I'm wondering cause I'm thinking. I I feel like I do that with my children. You do what I tell them my truths. Oh yeah, I mean, I'm definitely a very more probably, more probably, they probably are tired of hearing my truth with it.

Speaker 2:

Um, but I would assume that some of this is due to the authoritative parenting style where they might be dealing with that, or do you see it with it depends on the situation and it depends on their uh, the tenor at which they go, but I think you're referring to a three-year-old looking at an adult reacting that way, coming off as more you know this like overarching, you know brooding, but the thing is, is that we have to be careful that when people say things like this, like I'm saying that, we don't nutshell them into that's all. They are Right, okay. So yes, let me. Let me continue, then, for you, for you and your listeners, that may come off as authoritarian, like overbearing. That may come off, and I can see that. However, then you don't. What you don't see is the cuddling, the, how I took her to the couch and we sat down, how I soothed her, how we stood, the my tone changed, how it became more soothing and nurturing.

Speaker 2:

The thing is, is that when you look at somebody like me who does the work I do, you, you can easily go. She's overbearing and I can totally get it, but that means the narrow-mindedness of somebody who can think that without ever asking, there's the conflict and that's why the work I do matters, because I teach. That's curiosity. You don't make an assumption. It's a good, it's a good question, and I'm not saying that, but all listeners are going to listen through that same kind or similar ears. So that is a very relevant and good approach and question.

Speaker 2:

So you're asking so isn't that kind of you know, overbearing and scary and intimidating? Yeah, it totally could be if I left it there Just like, just like if I say I am so scared you're going to die. That's fearful, unless you continue the conversation, right. So so that's the point of conflict resolution, it's continuing the conversation. Sometimes we get so pigeonholed into an idea, into an assumption, into an you know, if she does it this way, then one way, if she does it one way, she does it that way all the time, and that's simply not the case. So that's the beauty of the conflict resolution is that you keep moving. It may have come off for people as that, but my daughter had three years with me. She has seen me be strong, she has seen me be soft, she has seen me be questioning, she has seen me be insecure. So it's not like that is the day she first saw me.

Speaker 1:

Right, and I wasn't meaning you. No, no, I was meaning the one when you said the people who say they can't show their feelings to their child, Because I feel like you did show your feelings, but when you made the comment you said some people say they can't do that. That's where I was thinking. Are those the authoritative figures that? Don't that's like I'm not going to show my emotion. I can't say that you hurt my feelings. I wouldn't know in that particular situation that I was talking about.

Speaker 2:

I wouldn't know in that particular situation that I was talking about, I think it was more fear-based. Okay, she was afraid to expose and it wasn't an overbearing. I can be overbearing, for sure, but in that situation I don't think that was overbearing. I think she was scared and instead of saying I'm scared because I just don't think I have the bandwidth, I don't think I can stand up next on that. That is a completely different thing and you continue, like I'm saying, continue that conversation to figure it out.

Speaker 1:

Right, okay. So, yeah, I also wanted to go into the statement where you said it's all in our head, because I think this is one thing, that, whether it is a conflict resolution with a teen, or dealing with our own inner voice and some of the things that we're dealing with in this midlife area, I think what you had mentioned is so important and it's how we begin to think about it before anything is ever expressed.

Speaker 2:

So can you?

Speaker 1:

talk to me like one. How, how can we, how do we change that Say, say that again. What do we do to start to change that voice in our head? This you know, this feeling of having to immediately think about, like you said, the conflict within your own head. How do we work through?

Speaker 2:

this. So the thing that we were you and I were talking about beforehand just to bring it up to the where I was at was a lot of people in the conflict space not all conflict people are created equal, okay, and a lot of people in the conflict space will say conflict is a challenge or a situation between you and me, and I've never agreed with that. Again, pointing out that conflict people are not all the same, they're not created equal, because I believe conflict is what happens in your own head, in public view. That's when conflict happens. That's the resolution we're trying to get to, and I call BS. It's not, that's other stuff, that's what we spew after we've already had the conflict in our head. So, for example, something is super simple. We're dealing with midlife, right? So simple. When you get up and you look in the mirror, are you 18 anymore? You know what I mean. And how do you feel about that woman, right? How do you feel?

Speaker 1:

right, yeah, no, it's very, I want to say, depressing, but it's very shocking because you don't feel you may not feel that way inside, and then you look at yourself and you're like, oh okay, I'm not feeling that I'm not feeling what's looking back at me.

Speaker 2:

But here's the thing. Okay, so this is how it begins. You did that, not you. You did that when you looked in the mirror. You got this opinion, you had this self-talk, and then you went outside, or outside of that bathroom door, and you went and did breakfast. What are you doing during breakfast? I shouldn't eat this, I should. I'm going to make this for everybody. Why isn't everybody happy? Everybody needs to be great. This is a great day.

Speaker 2:

Or your husband comes out and he says something that sets you off and it's like but where did it begin? And then what you do is you're going to go out in the world. You're going to go to the grocery store. Somebody cut you off in the parking lot or somebody got in front of you in line. Now you're ticked off even more, and this is just a maddening cycle.

Speaker 2:

So what we've done is that we take that and we put it out in the world. We took that stuff and we put it out in the world, but what we do is we blame it on. That's the conflict. It's the conflict of the person that cut me off. It's the conflict that my husband mouthed off to me and triggered me. It's the conflict that my teen said something back to me. But really, the conflict is happening in your own head first. That's where it all began. Whether it is there's such a pain in the butt I don't want to deal with my 16-year-old today such a pain in the butt, I'm so tired of what he's doing right now in the family and we developed that conflict right in our head. And then we went out and we greeted him and it's like, oh, having a nice day, okay, well, I'm going to have a nice day. And then we tell the world and tell people it's not, it's not my problem, it's their problem. No, no, it was my problem first.

Speaker 1:

Because when I have trouble with people.

Speaker 2:

It's like it started here, or it started days ago, or it started last year.

Speaker 1:

Well, and we all create our own stories, so we've already come into the situation creating our own story. When you said the husband, I think to myself sometimes, like things, that I think where I'm like, oh, you know he, he can't stand to look at this face either. You know, I'm just saying like, you know, you feel like, oh, you're getting older and it's I wonder how he is looking at me.

Speaker 2:

And yes, or or you say no wonder men have affairs, and yes, or or you say no wonder men have affairs. Look at me, look at what he's looking at. You know how's he dealing with this? I'm 50 pounds overweight. You, these are the things that you do to yourself and we're doing it constantly. We are just torturing ourselves constantly and then we go out in the world and go. It's not my problem, it's their problem. They're the ones with the attitude problem. I can't even believe that they're even thinking. It's me. You know what? The way I look at the world, I look at the world as I choose to be happy. That's the way I am. That's why I show up and you're going. You know, no, no, no.

Speaker 2:

There's a few things that are true, that are giveaways, you know. Like for me, it's like how do you keep your house? There's a giveaway of how you feel. How do you keep your body? That's a giveaway of what's going on, not necessarily the way you feel, because I can hold weight when I'm pissed off at my husband for a long time when he had his head injury it's been three decades Believe you me, I held that. I held because I had no other protection, so I held weight. You know I mean these.

Speaker 2:

There's so many dynamics that go into this, but that's why the conflict can start right between your two ears. So what do we do? What you do is is a few things. We talk about being satisfied as women, coming into our own, you know, having our own constitution, that kind of thing.

Speaker 2:

But how does it begin? It begins with these five skills. It begins with curiosity. Now, are you going to change it in a day? No, I'm not going to change it in a day. I'm going to get curious. I'm going to be an exceptional learner about who Carlene is. I'm going to, I'm going to get to know her.

Speaker 2:

How does she get pissed off? Why did you get pissed off, carleen? You don't have to tell. I don't have to tell anybody. I just have to be caring enough to go.

Speaker 2:

What? Why did I do? Oh well, because he's really great and on my nerves because I don't like the way he chews, cause I don't like that he's wearing these clothes, that he's changed his per. My husband changed his personality completely. Okay, so really I could sit back and go. I don't even like this guy, right, I can sit there and go. You bug me. I didn't even have to wait for real marriage to last to work. You know what I'm saying? I all I had.

Speaker 2:

We had a brain injury. So it's like he comes home completely different. He doesn't have the memories of me that he used to. I'm pissed off at Becca, right. So I have to get curious. Why does that hurt? It hurts because I have the memories. It hurts because he doesn't adore me like he used to. It hurts because he doesn't care about me like he used to. It hurts because I am a person to him and I have to earn back his affection because he doesn't remember me the same way. So that's curiosity about me. I'm sharing really boldly. I've not talked about this before, but the thing is, is that that's how you figure this out? And then you go, what am I going to do with it? Because it's my attitude, my attitude that I'm standing with it but I'm not going to fix it. So then I go into. Okay, my master listening is piecing things together. It's filling in the gaps. Well, you know, I can't. I can't hold him responsible for not remembering me, but dang.

Speaker 2:

I want to right, so then I've got to have that little mind, talk with myself and go, okay, but yeah, it's really not cool. What kind of what does it say about you as a human, carlene? Okay, well, well, was it love till death? Do you part? Or was it, you know, in sickness and health?

Speaker 1:

Where are you?

Speaker 2:

at. I mean, all these conversations have gone through my head as I've processed who I am, and then I have to connect with myself, not connection, as in this self-care, but connection as in oh, you know what. You have a right to feel that way, carlene. You're okay. You can feel it, get mad, give yourself a season, give yourself a minute, give yourself some time to process and feel the pain, feel the loss. It's an evolution. Fyi, it's an evolution, so it's not going to all happen in a day, but there are things that I do, that I go through those things and that's one of the things I teach in my deep dive elevation programs is I talk about? This is exactly how I heal, this is exactly how. Is I talk about? This is exactly how I heal, this is exactly how, and it all uses the savage theory of resolution. And then what you do is you reframe, which we talked about, and that is okay. He doesn't remember you the same way, but you love him. So what are you going to do about that, carlene? And I remember I was on the brink of divorce with him and I had to do some soul searching. And I had to do some soul searching and I had to really make the decision Am I leaving or am I staying? And so I sat there and then I realized I had overheard a friend of mine talking to her husband and he had done plenty of offensive, offensive things, plenty and, let's just say, worthy of being shunned, okay. And yet I heard her go hey, carlene's going to stay here for the weekend, is that okay? And I went what? Why do you need to ask his permission? He's not even here. You and I have been friends longer than you two have been married, and I went through that whole conflict, right, right, and you two have been married, and I went through that whole conflict, right, right. But here's the thing is that, as I was processing through my own personal space, I had to say so, what are you going to do about it, carleen? That's the reframe.

Speaker 2:

And I realized again, going back through my Savage Therapeutic Resolution, I realized huh, since he's had his brain injury, I've never fully shown him who I am. I've been protector, guardian, keeper, you know, fighter, all for his situation. I have been the person who stayed stoic, who stood against every wind that came, but I never gave him the kindness of who I am, the tenderness of who I am. And so I said to him I went back and I said, hey, can we, you know, can I talk to you? And he's like, oh great, here we go. You know, buckle up, she's ready.

Speaker 2:

And I said, hey, you know what, if our marriage is going to end, I'm okay, and I hope you would be okay too, but I'm going to make sure you know the woman I am before we finalize. And that instantly changed me, because it all happened in my head All the conflict, all the beating, all the self-beating, all the beating of him, all that stuff, all that. And then what I spewed out into the world and what I covered up and what I pretended through. And so I finally said that to him and I changed instantly. And a couple of weeks later he came back and he goes oh my gosh, have you always been this way? You are the most amazing woman. And I went well, yes, yes, as a matter of fact, I am. And so we've continued on in that journey.

Speaker 2:

But that taught me a few things about the conflict that happens in my head. And what are we doing to torture ourself than others? What are we doing to torture ourself than others and then covering up so we look like we've got it all together, and this is the magic of midlife is that you have that opportunity to really start looking at things. You know, when you're younger I'm just surviving sometimes and you've got to do things. There too, these same theories work, but anyway. Yeah, that was a long way to answer your question. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1:

No, it's great. It was great For those that might be afraid to open up. At that point, do you have anything to say to them? I'm thinking because they're feeling, because I'm thinking of your situation, like you've been hurt through everything you know, like the injury didn't just happen to him, it happened to you as well and you probably were in a sense, I would assume, protecting yourself. So maybe that's where some of the where you did not then open up to really share who you were. So how do you, do you have any recommendation of how we get to? Okay, finally, like we know, it's within ourselves. How do you open up to allow yourself to share that information?

Speaker 2:

Sure, and you're right on all those counts, and I think fear of exposing ourselves is very worthy to discuss. My question is what have you got to lose?

Speaker 1:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2:

What is the price of not and what is the cost to In my world? Okay, so in mediation, mediation, crisis and hostage we look at worst case scenario you have to. So take any of those worst case scenario you lose a life. What were you willing to pay to keep it? So if your conflict is within the walls of your own head and you're going, my life is crap. I'm in midlife. We've lost my relationship with my spouse because we have been so taken up with the family situation, with drama with our aging parents, with loss of a child. We have had all of this stuff. So now I don't even know where this person is. My question is what's it worth? What's the cost? What are you at risk of losing? What's your worst case scenario and is it worth that?

Speaker 2:

So I just had a couple talking to me about breaking up right, and they're sparring quite a bit and all that stuff, and so when we were sitting down, I said to them look, here's the real deal. You never leave your relationship in a broken state. If you cannot look at that person and think that they are worthy of something good, then you are living in a bad state. That's a problem I have. That's my problem If I am tearing and shredding another person down in order to and then I give myself permission to leave and, you know, claim that they're this person or that person and that gives me, you know, rational, rational rationale to leave. That's a mistake. Now, if I can look at that person and go, you know what. You deserve the best, I deserve the best, or whatever that conversation is going to be in your head. You deserve the best, I want the best, or whatever that conversation is going to be in your head. You deserve the best, I want you to have that and it's not this. So what can we do? Or you have your own conversation and your own situation and walk out of that, whatever that is, whether it's an argument or whatever but you never leave your conflict saying that's the reason why, because you're doing it on an emotional trigger, you're not doing it of sound mind. We don't make good decisions when we're flying high in emotions Think about it Hostage taking.

Speaker 2:

They're not making good decisions. So you need to have somebody come in that's going to talk to you more about realism, more about what is what is really at stake here, man, and that's what they do in a hostage situation they find out who is the wife, who are the kids, how close is he to them, who is the trigger, what's going to make him pull or make her? You know what? How is that going to work? And they start dissecting what matters. And then they can talk to the person and say what's at risk here? Are you willing to risk all that for a bunch of strangers in there? Is that the price you're willing to pay? And and what are you going to have after that?

Speaker 2:

What did you just buy by by taking lives? You just bought what. What did you just buy by taking lives? You just bought what. So to bring it down to our space by calling it quits, by saying it's not me, it's just you, it may be 80% them, but you still have 20%. It may be 95% them, you still have five percent. What are you going to do with the five percent you? You have not lost power. You will never lose power unless you hand it over. So then you have to work with my five percent, my 20. What am I going to do with that? What's it worth? What's it cost? What's the price? Am I willing to pay it? So that would be my question to your answer to your question Okay, what's it worth?

Speaker 1:

I mean I think most people at that point you know you have nothing to lose, you probably have already come to the end of yeah yeah, exactly't you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I have felt I mean you guys, no joke, I mean I've been stripped of everything that mattered. I. I know what that looks like, I know what it looks to be at the very bottom and it doesn't have to be that way. If I take back and admit that I've got a piece to play here, right, even walking out is a piece. Even say you don't walk out, maybe, maybe you stay in these, this midlife situation that you're maybe not happy with and I'm not saying everybody's unhappy with it, I'm just saying if you are, because I deal in conflict, if you stay in that, then that's yours. You stayed there.

Speaker 2:

If you stay in it and not change, if you stay in it, continue to be dismissed and ignored. You chose it, so just know that. And if you chose it, then you've got to embrace that. If you don't like it, you have power. Now I can change a room. I can change my husband's mood just by using the Savage Theory of Resolution. That's it. I can change a bad mood into a good mood instantly just by using those skills. I can change crazy hostility into calm de-escalation using those skills. So don't take it lightly Right.

Speaker 1:

Can you give us one little tip? So if someone is dealing with that situation in their household, this kind of being like a homework assignment for them, they've hit some sort of conflict and what would one tip be for them to work through to change the room, change the situation? Are you talking about instant change, yeah, yeah, or you know as close as you can. Is there one or two things that they can do when they find conflict this week, that they can create the change?

Speaker 2:

Yep, one that will work, and has worked in every situation, if you use it. Now, that's a caveat, because most people think that this is way too dumb to use, and they'll already reason themselves out of it, okay, so I'm going to give you all the baggage that you're going to talk yourself to throw as you talk yourself out of it.

Speaker 1:

But it's that conflict in your own head. Again, I know conflict in your own head.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So here's what you do, and I usually say start with an easy target, start with somebody that you get along with, that's you don't have a lot of conflict with. But let's say you go after the hard stuff A conversation I put it in my Ted talk, it's the 15 minute conversation or the listening, and what that is is. You go in and you talk to you, ask someone questions for 15 minutes. You're going to see your own shortcomings as well as theirs, possibly, but you will discover something amazing, um, and that is just ask them questions for 15 minutes. It could be something as simple as hey, how was your day?

Speaker 2:

What do you mean how was my day?

Speaker 1:

What are you asking me? How?

Speaker 2:

was my day. You never asked me how my day is. Okay, yeah, I get it, but I just didn't know if something had happened today. You know about well.

Speaker 2:

I don't know. I don't know what happened today. You seem a little grumpy. I'm like you hungry, or you know. Do you just not want to talk to me, or how's that feeling? Or you could start with something easy. You know, I heard this podcast.

Speaker 2:

What do you think of this idea? Do you think that women have conflict in their own heads before it comes out of their mouth? That would be a simple one and you sit back and you listen and then you begin to explore, kind of like what you and I are doing. You begin to explore ideas of that conversation. So it could be something as simple as oh, so you do think that. You do think not, oh, you do think women have this conflict in there, not that one, but it's like oh, how do you think that happens? Where do you think that comes from? Do you think any of that is geared from childhood or do you think it's instant? Do you think that it's impacted by friends, family, neighbors, kids, and how do you think that's instant? Do you think that it's impacted by friends, family, neighbors, kids, and how do you think that's impacted? Have you experienced that of your own self? What is that?

Speaker 2:

And you begin to just ask questions. Here's a few things that you're going to discover so that I, that you know what you're looking for, what the outcome is going to look like. You're going to find out you can't ask questions. You don't have enough questions to ask, right? You're going to find out that you are lacking this like interest in that person and then what, I don't know what to say, oh crap. And you're going to do that. You're going to find out that they may be telling you things that might go. Or they might be telling you things where you go wow, I've never. I've been married to you for 20 years and I've never heard this and that's going to be a big aha. They may go wow, that feels really good. Or they may just want to hang out with you a little bit longer, good. Or they may just want to hang out with you a little bit longer. They may start asking you questions, but the first 15 minutes you hold and you ask, continue asking them questions and say, yeah, okay, I'll get to that, but but I was wondering and that's how you keep moving in that conversation to be one-sided. It will also. What this does is also releases the negativity within them, so it will bring them down to whatever's happening that maybe you don't know about. And it'll be a connection.

Speaker 2:

I did it with my husband and he had no idea. It's not a manipulation, it's a tool to try and reach somebody and do help and work. And so I did it with my husband. I did this whole thing. It's called.

Speaker 2:

I organized what I call life planning conference, where you go in and you create a 12 month goals together. Well, how do you do that when somebody doesn't want to spend time with you? Okay? So there's a big whole thing I do around that. But I got him there Right and he was like, okay, I and you know how men can be right, I don't want to do this, this is so boring or silly. Anyway, I said, just go with it, just go with it, I will take care of this. And so we did the whole thing. I did the 15 minute conversation and he goes wow, that was so therapeutic, carleen, can we do that again? And it was just interesting Now I, I set it up and it was a 15 minute conversation that I said I just want to ask you a few questions, and so he said okay, and then he, that was his reaction afterwards.

Speaker 2:

You can go about it that way. You can just simply start with a conversation. You could simply ask something that's about the world you know, about something happening in your community. Start with that what do you think of this? What do you think of this next thing that's happening? And start hearing them. You this, what do you think of this next thing that's happening? And start hearing them. You could do it on politics If you have no opinion about it and hold, you can do it.

Speaker 1:

On that, I mean, there's just so many places to go. But do it. That is going to be groundbreaking, yeah, especially if you're not giving your two cents as well.

Speaker 2:

Just go like this, just do this, just hike.

Speaker 1:

Can you let our listeners know where they can find you? And if you're offering, I believe you're offering something.

Speaker 2:

I am. So they can go to my website, carleansavagecom slash parents and they can get on my list to do any parenting stuff. But if you get on my list at carlingsavagecom, I share other trainings. So like I have a $97 training where I give you three days of this stuff and I teach you how to do it and I walk you through it and we do breakouts and anyway you learn all of that stuff. That's epic and so good for people.

Speaker 2:

And that's what I want to do is I want to share the information with people and I don't, you know, I kind of go in on this. My course is just insanely cheap and I've been paid a ton of money to do these things on a bigger level. But yeah, you need this stuff in your life. Yeah, I know what it's done for me and yeah, I know what it's done for me and I guess I know what it's done for my kids. I know what it's done in the most broken relationships. I know what it's done in abusive situations. I know what it's done. Not that anybody should stay in abusive situations, be done with that but I can work in these places and I come to you sharing that some of that. So that's how you find me.

Speaker 1:

Well, and I think, like you said, you have nothing to lose at that point. So, yeah, yeah. So thank you so much for taking time out of your day for this conversation. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2:

Courtney, you and I just went off we went outside the box. We went everywhere. Anyway, thank you so much for letting me be here.

Speaker 1:

Of course, I hope you enjoyed this episode and found something to take away to help you practice healthier habits, move more or handle the midlife and aging with grace. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or leave us a review to help us reach more moms just like you. Head to movingthroughmidlifecom to join the free community or learn how you can move more and feel better in your daily life.