Ep 27 Helping new or pregnant moms know what to expect from breastfeeding with Erin Harris

Erin is a Lactation Educator and course creator with Nursing Mama's.

Today she is on to share information in regards to what to expect when breastfeeding for new and pregnant moms.  We hear so much about what to expect during pregnancy and after in regards to the baby but not much in regards to breastfeeding which can leave us with so many more questions than answers. 

Today she helps to prepare you and ease your mind when it comes to latching and breastfeeding.  I love that she mentions to just take it one feed at a time.

I hope you enjoy this and please head to: Nursing Mamas for more information.

Free guide:  5 Reasons to See A Breastfeeding Specialist Before Baby Comes (nursingmamas.com)

FB: (4) Nursing Mamas | Facebook
IG: Breastfeeding Expert (@erin.nursingmamas) • Instagram photos and videos


Read the blog: Health and wellness blog - Form Fit (formfitnaples.com)

Transcript

Unknown: 0:05

Welcome to raising healthy humans. I am your host Courtney, a personal trainer and health coach, and the founder of formfit. A community where I help busy moms move more. As a busy and sometimes overwhelmed mama three myself, I understand that it can be difficult to find ways to live and raise healthy families. It is my goal to help provide you with the information you need to help raise healthy humans. today's podcast is really designed for either that new mom or newly postpartum mom, who is looking to learn a little bit more about breastfeeding. And I'm really excited to be able to have Erin on today for an interview. She is a certified lactation educator. And she has so much information, she's a wealth of information in regards to things that you can do to prepare now, for once you have your baby. And also for those of you moms who may be struggling with the breastfeeding process. So I want you to definitely listen in. And I hope you enjoy it. My name is Aaron Harris, and I have two children. My daughter Avery is five and my son Luca is two. And when I just became pregnant and looked into all of the things, I knew I wanted to breastfeed, and ultimately the way to get that path that I saw was as natural of birth as possible. And so I ended up doing Hypnobabies and succeeded I did natural all natural birth with my daughter was so excited. And you know, the time came to latch and this whole natural this thing that was just going to happen, didn't happen. And my Doula after 19 hour labor, looked at my husband and said go to Target and get a nipple shield. And so he did. He didn't know what he was looking for. I had never heard of it before. And he gets it and that sort of helped. But it was really difficult. We she wouldn't latch very well. And I was in the hospital a couple days and went home and still was having trouble. But it was, you know, like, feeling good about it's still like it'll happen. But I think day two I called the milk line at the hospital. And basically I looking back I don't know if she actually yelled at me but I felt like the nurse yelled at me. And she said she is probably starving. She probably has jaundice, go to Target right now and get formula. And that was the the milk line and so I was a hot mess. And the thankfully I had my jewelers number she sent over a postpartum doula who helped me but that was really hard because this thing that was supposed to be natural and easy and beautiful wasn't it was still hard for quite a while we had a lot of pain. But we made it through. So that part, you know, was hard, but we once we got it, we got it. And she was off to the races and kind of never wanted to stop. Literally she didn't wean until four and a half years. Well, I guess it's slightly not true. When I became pregnant with my son. My milk dried up about the second trimester, but I told her the milk would come back with the baby the baby would bring it back. And because I knew I was I got a book I was planning to tandem nurse because at that point, it was my my parenting superpower. It was everything it was you know, she cried. She hurt herself. She was tired anything. Here's the boob. And so we did we relaxed when he was born. So I was home with him for a few months and then when I went back to work I was I was at the time a teacher at a community college. Okay, I'd done that for a decade and COVID hit. So he was nine months old. I only been back to work eight weeks and every was three years and I was Tandon nursing both of them. I will actually I'd like at that time I was pumping for him because he weaned at four months. Pumping four times a day and COVID hit so I was trying to do zoom college from home with my husband working from home. Do it now getting three naps a day and nursing and I couldn't do it. So at the end of the semester, I decided to stay just be home that worked and it was really good for a few months but I would never intended to be a stay at home mom. God bless you if you that's the thing is like I wish it could be my my thing but I need more. And I had always had a calling and a pull to moms after I had that hard time nursing my daughter. So I told my husband I want I had to take a course and become a lactation educator. And so that kind of that was last year. And that brought us to today. So currently, I'm helping doing one on ones and a bunch of other stuff we'll probably get into later. But that's sort of the journey that got me here. Okay. Wow, that is a lot. That's a lot. That's why it's hard, because I'm like, I don't know how to make this shorter. Because it builds. Right. Well, and that's how we find exactly what it is that we're meant to do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, and I have, I have, well, my background is in education. And one of my degrees is in health communication. So it really felt like a very nice transition, because I'm still teaching. I'm just teaching something more specific to what I care about. Right. And you currently work with new moms. And then you also I know you mentioned to me once before that you work with moms prior to even having their children. Oh, yeah. So important. Yes. Yeah, I work with postpartum. And yes, I'm, what I'm really trying to do is teach new moms. And not even new moms, pregnant women, yes, that there is so much they can do to prepare, that isn't typically taught at the hospital, because the hospital is trying to persuade women to breastfeed, right. And so that audience, they're not going to tell you about the hard stuff, because they want you to do it. Right. So I really want to help the moms who know they want to nurse whether it's for health reasons, or they just they just want to, to succeed. Yeah, and there is so much to do before baby comes that can help you prepare for that, when you were speaking about your own pregnancy, about after having your daughter. And you mentioned that, you know, she was struggling, it made me go back to my first son and how he was struggling as well. And I think we don't think about you know, the books don't talk about that. They're just, you know, this is an option after you have the baby. And then you're then pushed into that situation where your hormones are all over the place. And depending on how you have the baby will depend on how your body is responding to everything. And I know for myself, you know, the lady was shoving like, she was squeezing and pressing my boob and trying to push it into my baby. And he was screaming, because, you know, like it was. And this is not unlike with you as well. It's not what you hear and what you think. So yeah, having you there to help women prior to I think, can be tremendously helpful. Yeah, and I try to frame it. I have obviously my story. But I don't say that in a way to hopefully be fear inducing. I don't want it to be like this is going to happen to you because hopefully, but what's frustrating is because I am so I have knowledge is power. To me, I'm typically a researcher, but I was told, Don't research that because it might put it into your brain and kind of self fulfilling prophecy. And I was like, Okay, I get that I was doing the Hypnobabies trying to be positive. So I didn't study it. And I wish I had. But you know, I learned from experience instead. So what do you recommend for to be moms? Are there a few things that you recommend they start working on now to help them through the breastfeeding? If that's what they're choosing? To do? Yes, absolutely. So the first thing I would suggest is actually booking an appointment with a lactation specialist, and getting a physical assessment. Because I think what a lot of women don't realize or are not taught is how milk is made. Because I hear women a lot of times saying like, Oh, I don't drink enough water, I need to do that to boost my milk. Milk is almost solely hormone related. And so that means if you have hormone issues, that's something to address and look at beforehand to see if that might become an issue for milk production. And there are other things that for example, well, I think we're going to talk later about implants. And so just talking to a specialist before baby comes can help you figure out is the implant surgery going to be an issue or not? Or maybe you know, and how to triage that before so if you if you go through that list, you know with a specialist and you don't have any of the kind of warning signs of physical issues and milk production, then you can probably pretty confident that your body is going to produce milk. And if you do have an issue, you can address it before it becomes a problem. Okay, so that's my number one. Okay, number two is prepare mentally. And to do this in a couple of ways. One is really looking breastfeeding is going to be your full time job. This is your new full time job. And I it I say that in a way that also helps you hopefully prepare with your partner. Because I love what I hear most of my, my clients are like, my partner is so supportive, and they want to be involved and they want to help at night. So they want to use the bottle at night so I can sleep. But the reality is, that's not how it works. And because you still have to get up and pump. And it's so think about the first couple of weeks as your, your training, your full time job training. If you have got a full time job and you went to that job, would you have asked your husband to go to half of your meetings? No, they couldn't do that, right. But the thing is, they can do everything else. So your full time job is nursing that baby and healing, their full time job is taking care of you so you can nurse that baby. So that is I don't want you to think about you need to split the duties 5050 anymore. It's your job is nursing that baby, and nothing else. And another perspective shift kind of going along with this is I feel like socially and culturally, we feel a burden, it's a burden almost, we have to do this, we have to you know, the hospitals really push on us, it's the best thing for the baby, we want the best for our baby. And it's all on us. And that's hard. And that's a wait. So I would suggest kind of a slight shift from I have to do this to out I'm the only one that can do this. Like that's powerful. And think of it as you know, breastfeeding really is our superpower. And I think it's something that we've lost out on a little bit seeing that, because like I I'm a feminist, right, like women power, all of that. But it was about women in the workforce. And it wasn't until I nursed that I realized this was really where my power was. This is why women and children were protected. You know, because men can't do this. Right? Yeah. And so if you start shifting your mindset of away from, I have to do this, and I'm the only one to really empowerment, it could help you and encourage you to continue. Three, have a contact in your phone for a breastfeeding specialist before baby comes. So that if there is an issue, you don't have to go searching because you're going to be exhausted and your brains not working. Right. So have that ready for find a breastfeeding friendly pediatrician. Because I'm not I'm not not that all, some aren't right? They're probably not going to tell you not to, but some are going to be more supportive of it than others. Some you may ask, for example, if you're interviewing a pediatrician, like if I'm having trouble nursing, or if the baby loses a certain percentage of weight. What would your recommendation be to me, because a baby is a breastfed baby is fine losing up to 10% body weight. And like in the first couple days normal. So if they say, well, we would have you supplement with formula. That's a big warning sign that they're not breastfeeding friendly. So if I add some other things, you can ask our do they have certifications and breastfeeding training? Do their nurses have certifications, and that will encourage you because they're the first person that you're going to see after you get out of the hospital. So if they're supportive, you're going to be more likely to succeed. Five, assess your own breast changes throughout pregnancy. So your breasts should get larger. And this is not fat, right? It's a blood flow circulation because milk or milk is primarily primarily made from blood. And which I still am when I learned that I thought that was really crazy and cool. But if your breasts are getting larger, if your your areolas are getting darker, there's some tenderness those are all good signs that your breasts are preparing for milk. And again, a good indication that things should should be fine in terms of production. Six, oh, okay, this is a don't please don't ask strangers on Facebook for medical advice. So refer back to the contact in your phone for lactation specialist and I say that lovingly because I did it too, because I didn't know where to go. But a lot of times it's wrong information, or it's just, you know, based on their one experience and someone would more professional would have other examples for you. You could also take a prenatal lactation course, of course, so that will really prepare you ahead of time to know that information. And seven, if possible, I don't know with COVID, how possible this is a it used to be much more achievable. But try to find an in person, postpartum Lactation Group, okay? So somewhere that you can go and sit in a room and kind of observe women nursing and hear their stories and what they're struggling with. Because before you have a baby, you don't sit in rooms with people with their boobs hanging out, but that's all you kind of do once baby is born. Is that so? If you can't find an in person one, I'm sure you can find a zoom, maybe through your hospital to try to, to join. And last one, number eight, set realistic goals. I know hospitals say nurse exclusively six months, right? That's the goal. Well, that's, that's a lot of pressure and a lot of days to get to six months. So I suggest your first goal is simply let's latch, get latching and then from there, just one nurse at a time to six months. Okay, those are I couldn't narrow down. No, no, that's great. I have a few questions for you. Sure. One, I do want to comment just because I know a lot of my listeners are in my local area. So for us, and I don't know if this is in other areas as well. We do currently have lactation meetings that are occurring. Most of them are occurring in parks. So just you know, something for people to look into. It looks like you know what used to be met at the hospital. They're now meeting in a local park. Oh, that's yeah. So that they're still able to meet but it's outside. So there are you know, are they through the hospital? It's still a Lightray. So I'm not sure it? Yeah. Are they hospital? No, they're separate. So that's definitely, of course a great group to look into. for that. That was one of my struggles I did again postpartum in my triage. I went to the website and couldn't find something local for me. But they're all over the place. So definitely check them out, because that is a great resource. And also, if you have any local doula organizations, there are another one that probably would be most likely to have it if your hospital doesn't. Yeah. Any other questions? So in regards to you mentioned that hormones have a lot to do with your breast milk? Yes. I'm thinking about the woman who may have had to go through in vitro. Does that affect anything with her hormones? Or? I mean, obviously, it could. What So what happens if a woman has a successful pregnancy, then it may or may, I really would suggest for just getting hormone levels checked. Okay? She could get thyroid. It's mainly, you know, thyroid, the pituitary gland is really where the hormones to do with breastfeeding come from. But if what happens is the progesterone that is very high in pregnancy, in the keeping, you know, baby in there and the estrogen when the placenta is born, and comes out, the progesterone drops. And what happens is progesterone actually suppresses prolactin, prolactin is the milk making hormone. Okay. So as long as all of that happens, and the hormone levels are normal, it should still work. Okay. Does that help? Yeah. So as long as they've conceived, they've been able to carry all of those hormones should be working. Yep. It's more the delivery side of it. Right. As long as they're having a healthy delivery, whether it be through Yeah, vaginal or cesarean? Right. Right. Exactly. Okay. There's not like a certain trauma that's occurring at that time. Correct. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, um, unless there is some sort of like permanent damage to some gland that would be a concern, which might occur with implants. So that is not necessarily I go well, yes, potentially. Okay. So the the implants situation is, it depends on where the incisions are. Okay. So if the incisions were around the nipple, that's more likely to have cut nerves that are the signal, you know, the signals travel to and from the glands in the brain to the breast. So, depending on if it was a surgery a long time ago, the nerves may have regenerated and may not be an issue. But it's something to be aware of that if you still don't have sensation, that's a signal that there might be an issue. And it's just something you really definitely want to have a lactation specialist, you know, kind of on call, and you want to be very observant of your baby's weight, and their pees and poops. And if they are not gaining, or if they're losing, then you really want to be in touch with someone. Because it's not been necessarily a matter of getting a better latch, it could truly be a milk production issue and supplementation would be necessary. Okay. Yeah, this is really important, too. So it depends. I think about if you have implants, why you got implants, obviously, we think, Oh, well, people want implants, because they want larger breasts, right? But if you wanted them because your breasts were asymmetrical to begin with, that could actually be a hormone issue. So if you did not develop normally during puberty, and so you had a surgery to corrective surgery, that could be a issue on top of an issue. Okay. Is that make sense? Uh huh. So again, getting those hormones checked, talking with your surgeon, if you're not sure if it was a long time ago, and you're not sure, because the besides the nerves, they could also have cut the well, this is more for reduction, but they could have removed milk ducts. Okay. So yeah, which can regenerate, but obviously, it just means that you might struggle to breastfeed exclusively, which is okay. Some breast milk is better than men. Right. But just being prepared for that. And, and setting, again, those realistic expectations of what to be prepared for. Okay. And thinking again, about after having your baby, I really went in blind with I mean, I was prepared for the delivery. I read the books, but the in gorgeous men that occurred, have any recommendations for helping moms with easing that pain of the engorgement. Okay, yes. So first let's, let's describe encouragement. Because it's, it's something elusive, because we never felt it, right. We don't know what to expect. I compare it to having to go to the bathroom in terms of a sensation, because we all know that experience, right? So when you have to go to bathroom, think about in the morning, right? That first piece of the day when you get up and you're like, oh, I have to go like that urgency. Because it's uncomfortable, right? It feels like there's pressure. It's not identical, but it's a similar sensation. When you hear a mom say I have to pump. It's because she feels like she like that equivalency. And that's why when you tell him Oh, just waited like wait a little while it's like telling her wait an hour to pee. Right? You wouldn't do that. So a couple things you can do is first, it actually has been shown in studies that cabbage leaves can help reduce enlargement, and my oh my gosh, when I first told my husband to go get cabbage, he thought I was going to eat it and be like he was gonna cook it. But if cabbage leaves, if you imagine, imagine them, if you pull them off, they're perfectly made to be round and capture your breasts. So put it in the fridge, get it nice and cold. And then when you set them on your bare breasts, that kind of chemical reaction can start to relieve some encouragement. I know some women who were like there's women are so fearful of their milk supply that they're not going to have enough, which when I hear that all I hear is women saying they're afraid of not being enough for their babies, right? And but what happens is they often end up getting an oversupply because they're so afraid of the under supply. And so they don't want to use cabbage because they're afraid that means that the remote is going to go away. And it's not it's just going to relieve some of the pressure. A couple of other things you can do. And I This isn't talked about either a lot. It's all about the pump, right? We get the powerful magical pump, the pump can get us into trouble. The pump can cause more engorgement, because if you are pumping in between nursing you're it's tough. Your body, oh, there's an extra feed in here, this baby's hungry, maybe it's cluster feeding, I have to produce more milk. And so it's actually going to make the problem worse. So instead of pulling out the double electric pump, what I suggest doing is hand expressing it go into the shower, and you can, this is something you can practice. Now, before baby comes just getting used to feeling yourself because you're going to be doing it a lot. I'm just go into the shower. And it's an audio so I am going to be so you can, I'm trying to describe this without visuals here. A common place where milk ducks are, if you're facing a woman on the right breast is sort of the nine o'clock to 11 o'clock. Area is a common place where you there might be a milk duct and also the reverse on the other side between like two and three, or one in three. And you can just lean over and start gently massaging your breast and pressing in those areas pressing around that kind of closer to your armpit and gently pressing down toward your nipple, that's going to start to release milk. So when you're in the shower, and the warm waters flowing, and you're doing that you could even get a warm washcloth and just set it on your breast. And that's going to release some milk so that you're already in the shower, it's not going to make a mess. And again, it's just relieving some of that pressure without fully emptying your breast because that's going to signal to make more milk. Okay, one more thing. Sorry, I missed it. And this one's a big one for your audience. I think okay, wear loose clothing. Workout. Mamas, yes. Just be gentle with your body. Okay, it's been through a lot. I know you want your body back. I know it's really hard, your body took almost 10 months to get this way, it's not going to magically go back. And some women are going to be able to run and jump and do that while nursing totally fine. Others won't. So again, be prepared that you know you're not quite sure how your body is going to react. For me I'm very large chested I really just low impact was my go to I could not run I because I just always felt like I'd Nope, you know, water jugs on my chest. Right? And no underwire. Right. Okay, so really, if you're in gorged, if you start to get clogged, that's just go to Target get one of those looser sports bras and do low impact until it gets better. Okay, thinking about soon after bringing your baby home when that milk is coming in, at what I remember for myself was major engorgement that they felt like they were going to pop they hurt so much, and my children weren't eating enough from them. But they were also so enlarged that it felt like you couldn't even with they were too firm. Yes, yes. So you would recommend for those individuals who might be very engorged to express first in the shower, and then latch them on. Yes, absolutely. Because sometimes when that engorgement gets so intense, it can actually also make the nipple harder to be right. Yeah, right. It just kind of everything flattened out. So yes, going into the shower, just briefly before plus. Okay, you're gonna need the shower, right? Like when, if that gets you in the shower, and get get in the shower, because, man, I don't I don't know why that was so hard to do. But it really was. And just release a little bit. And when you see a flowing again, I think there's it's all hormones, it's all confidence level that when you're relaxing, and you know, the milk is flowing, you're, it's more likely to continue. Right? So getting that let that first leg down. But yeah, just loosening everything up. It will make it easier for the baby to latch. And some babies, you know, they just want it and they're like, give it to me. I don't care how I have to get it. You can put me upside down I'm going to latch and I want that milk. And some babies are like oh, no, it's not exactly how I like it. So fix it for me. You know I Right. And that part we don't have control over yet. And but there are obviously like I've mentioned so many things we do have control over. And most women should expect some engorgement. And I can look at it in shift perspective shift. If you're in gorged, it means your milk came in. It means there's milk in there. That's a good thing. It's more concerning if you're at day four or five and you haven't felt any encouragement Another reason to contact a lactation specialist and make sure your baby's weight is maintaining eye we're improving. Otherwise, something should be looked at. Okay, perfect. Now as our babies get older, and we decide that we want to maybe partake in some alcohol, can you help us out with this pump and dump rule? What is it? You know, I wanted to look at because it is it's so confusing. And again, don't go to Facebook. What I actually had to show you my book, because I just want to prove like this guy. Oh, my God. This is a big book. This is breastfeeding answers made simple. And it is like 700 pages. So I say, this is an academic text. I thought this was simple. Oh, right, exactly. So I have a couple tips. One comes from an Australian review that first says no alcohol in the first month, okay? Again, that first month should be your training on your new job, right? You want to go party, if you're training for your new job and have to get up at 8am or realistically with breastfeeding, you know, every couple hours. And so I just want to make it clear that it can, alcohol can Tran transfer to breast milk. And so the smaller the baby, the more that's going to be an issue. Okay, but this next one should hopefully be pretty simple to remember, is for one standard drink. So for example, about 10 to 12 ounces of beer, or a five ounce glass of wine, you wait three hours to nurse again. Okay? So another way you can do is if you know you're going to have a drink, whether it's at home at a restaurant, you nurse or pump immediately before drinking alcohol, then you can wait the three hours and then you can nurse again, if you feel engorged, if it's maybe they're cluster feeding and so the milk Santa's coming in a little bit or they're hungry, that's when you pump in back. So if for some reason be between those three hours, you need to nurse again, you supplement with either frozen milk, or milk in the fridge or, or formula, and you dump that milk. Now for me honestly, I hated pumping so much. And I hated the idea of wasting milk. So I honestly just for me personally didn't do it. Because it seems like I it wasn't worth the effort. Right? Right. Yeah. But um, that's, that's not for everyone. And it is safe. When they also say if you have more than one drink, you extend it another three hours. So if you have a drink gets three additional hours. Yep. So hopefully that's easy to remember. And also you should only be drinking one to two times a week. Okay. It can mistake in your blood system. Right. Okay. So it will build up and it will continue to transfer to your breast milk. Okay, I was gonna say it doesn't upset your milk supply at all. That's a great question. I think I read that. And I meant to make a note of it and I forget. Okay, that's, um, oh, no, it did. Okay, so it adds noise. So it wasn't your, your, your supply that it affected it actually affected their sleep. They slept worse. Oh, after drinking alcohol. So if that's another incentive, so mom slept worse. The babies slept worse. So it is affecting them? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Well, you know, you mentioned that it's mostly blood. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So and obviously, I mentioned beer and wine specifically because I would really restrain from doing any hard liquors, and obviously other recreational smoking. Try not to do marijuana is not also good. I would not recommend any form of of that. Even if you're in a state where it's legal to do it. It again is in the bloodstream, and and can stay there much longer than alcohol and can have negative effects on the bait. Okay. Do you notice people dealing with problems throughout I'm thinking mastitis might be a problem. People deal with moms deal with anything else that you the clogged milk ducts, I guess the mistake itis is most likely to happen in the beginning, or when mom goes back to work. Okay. And well, yeah, those are the two big times because it's the moms transition to pumping usually, although with COVID You know, this is a it's been very interesting experience to talk to moms who had babies in the last year and a half or so, because they've just never leave their kid. Right. They went back to work, but their work was the bedroom, right? Not for everyone obviously, but That experience has been dramatically different than what most people pre COVID experienced. Right? I went back to work with Avery at nine weeks. And that was hard. Very hard. My and I didn't realize that my work didn't even have a pump room. So if you're going back to work in an office, ask about pumping, where are you going to pump, it should have a lock, it shouldn't have windows. And it should be, it should not be in a bathroom stall. It can be a room in a bathroom, but not in a bathroom stall. So those are super important things to consider. Okay, if you have to go back to work. But yeah, that's a big transition. And so I think a lot of times moms, because they're back at work, they're focused, they, they're not pumping as maybe as often as they should, they can get in gorged, and Miss Titus often comes up then, okay. But the first year is just a huge trend, constant transition, because the first you know, some couple of weeks month is just figuring it out. Then you figure it out. And there's maybe a cluster of couple cluster feeds in there, right. But then you get the hang of it, you're starting to feel comfortable, and then you go back to work and everything changes. And then you get a new normal and you start introducing foods. And you know, so there's always something that's changing, that you're adjusting to, and lactation specialists can help in all of those categories. They're always because really, realistically, when especially when food comes in, that's the start of weaning. That's the transition away from exclusive breastfeeding, to more foundational food. So it's a lot. Yeah, yeah. So when do you recommend weaning? Or how do we know that it's time to start weaning? So that's a great question. And it depends a lot on the baby. I am a huge advocate of baby led weaning. But that being said, it has to work for both people, right? I liken breastfeeding to a dance that but they're both kind of leading at any given time, you know, and in the beginning, neither knows how to lead. But then you get your footing, and then the second kid you do better, right? Because now you know how to lead, right. But every she just never wanted to stop, right. And in some points, I was ready, but it seemed easier to keep going. So I kept going, my son weaned at four months, and I had no control over that. And that was really hard. When they wean before you're ready is really hard. But let's say you're ready and you're not sure if they are I would take it slow and steady for both your physical comfort and their emotional needs because that's something especially as the baby hits around a year again that breastfeeding is not now the immediate source and sole source of food. It is comfort it is love my my daughter called it love she is she said milk is love. And so to me it to me, it's like well, I'm I'm am I going to take away this love from her, you know? And so just think of it that way in terms of how can you replace milk with something else to still show your love. So that could be play that can be so it's still just making sure you have that connection with them that connection time. So what I suggest doing, regardless of the timeframe, if it's around a year or beyond, you can start by weaning from the pump first. And so slowly one pump at a time every three days, it depends on your comfort level like I hated hated weaning also, because again, that engorgement feeling was really annoying. And so it was difficult. But after a couple days, when your encouragement goes away again, you can then reduce your pump sessions one by one. And honestly, a lot of women once they stop pumping, and they really love nursing, then it's just this little bonding time a couple times a day with with your kid and some women decide to keep going longer after that, but if you're still done, you can consider dropping the feedings that seem the least important to your child first, which are usually kind of midday you know the snacks and I would wait for you know the the wakeup nurse cuddle or the nighttime especially to be last. Again even the morning one you could probably distract with something else or be like oh, we have to go see grandma or whatever it is like yeah, we'll do it after we'll do it after and kind of distracts them away. But it's usually those nighttime go to bed feeds that lasts the longest and I do Same brace them hold them. Because they're, you know, for how annoying they can be. Sometimes you'll miss it when it when it's over. And let me see, oh, another one. So I didn't do this because I never wanted to wean. You can Google or Amazon Go on Amazon and search, children's books for weeding are about weaning. And there are some, there are definitely some books out there for children about, you know, milk is going away or won't be here for long and you can start reading books to them to prepare. Okay, and the last thing, it's a tip that a couple of women I know have done is when you've done all of this, you're pretty much done. You just have those couple feeds, you can put band aids on your nipples, and just tell your baby or your not your baby your child. Like, oh, I have an ouchy but we can't nurse now. And usually they're like, Okay, and after a few days, you can kind of be done. But it can wax and wane, wane, like sometimes it seems like they're done, but then they come back. And it's it's okay, if it's slow. If you need to be done quickly, for some immediate reason, like travel. Again, just do it as gently as possible for both you. And that's how I, my daughter self weaned. I thought, and then we went on vacation as a family to the beach. And because we were out of this comfort zone, it was probably a week after she had not wanted them at all. She wanted them again. And I wish looking back now I wish I had just let her but I guess because I had gone through some encouragement, I didn't want to go back into it. So I withheld, because at that time I was done when she was done. I was done. But I do think if you're thinking about weaning, make sure that life isn't changing in any way. Because that. Yeah, that's a great point. Again, the emotional nursing is emotional, it's an emotional comfort for them. And even if you have currently an older child, who is still nursing, and that happens more than people realize, but it's so socially unacceptable that we just do it quietly, you know, more women do it then you know, and when Avery so I finished pumping last year for Luca. And then my milk slowly was drying up. And I could tell Avery was mainly just kind of, I wasn't sure how much milk she was actually getting. And we had actual conversations. Like do you want to wait till it just isn't there one day? Or do you want to decide when our last feed is going to be and be done? And she would like hugging kiss my boob every single time like in case it was the last time and then one day finally decided? i Okay, this is it. And she was done a while? Never asked again. So I She's I would not say that. That's four and a half is an culturally for us is extremely common. But we also transitioned to COVID. And then we were home. 24/7. So right when she changed every single trauma of it. Yeah, I just you know, let it go. But everyone is going to be different. Every baby is different. So just following their lead is I think important. Yeah, like, and then we beat each beat ourselves up, right? Like, oh, he should have I should have let her keep doing it. Right. It is your body. And let's say you're just done. You're done having someone stuck on your body, right? Like you are touched out. You're done. You want your body to be yours again. That is fine. Yeah, it is okay. And if they're not totally done, and they're grabbing, again, just try to do it as gently as possible, show them new ways that you can love on them. That doesn't include that. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you so much for that. Tell us about what you are offering us right now what products you have, yeah, or courses or let me know a little bit about what you are offering. So right now I do one on one consults, both prenatal and postpartum. So I have that as an offer. I'm currently starting a boot camp that I'm super excited about. And I'm going to be offering that quarterly so that women can kind of have a virtual group that they're going through this together with they have me as you know, their team, kind of leader. And so I'm really excited to be starting that that probably will be starting up again in January. Okay. And I kind of my biggest package deal is really for moms who are in that triage the postpartum crisis mode. I have a package that has four weeks of zoom. I especially the first two weeks daily zoom calls and multiple text calls to check in. Like Can you look, it's amazing what can happen via zoom, I can correct a latch via zoom. It's amazing. And so usually the this package is for women who, again are triaging, or I often give moms who struggled the first time and didn't meet their goals and want to have someone in their pocket the second time around, okay. And then, for years, listeners, I have created a free guide, which I kind of goes back to what we were talking about initially, in terms of what to talk to a specialist about, right, because over and over again, I hear prenatal women saying, I don't know what questions to even ask, I don't make the appointment because I don't know what to ask. And my whole goal is to teach moms what they don't know, they need to know about nursing, right? So this guide has five unexpected reasons to see a breastfeeding specialist before baby comes, okay. And they can go to nursing mamas.com back slash raising healthy humans to get that, okay. Once they sign up to download that they can actually they'll be sent to another page and get a free consult. Oh, excellent. That'd be great. And the last thing I have is, if you go to my website, nursing mamas.com, there will be a sign up page to pre order or not even pre order, just get on the waitlist for my course that I'm creating. So I'm going to have a virtual course. That should be hopefully up by again, November or December. Oh, perfect. Yeah. Where else can we find you on social media? So currently, I'm I'm just on Facebook. I mean, social media is rough for me. So hard to keep up. I'm just building one at a time. So you can find me@facebook.com backslash Aaron, er I n dot nursing mamas. And that's where I am right now socially. And then for those who are postpartum and may be looking for help. Again, you can go directly to the website and email me. And also you can click for a consult there as well. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to listen into our podcast. I hope you have found Erin's information valuable. And please make sure to check the show notes for the links that we mentioned in this episode in regards to the free download sheet is offering. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you could do me a favor if you like what you hear. Could you leave us a review or take a screenshot and share your favorite takeaway on social media. And make sure to tag us over at raising underscore healthy humans. Now go out and enjoy more movement throughout your day.