Episode 22: Helping your Child Navigate Life after High School
Today I am speaking with Stephanie Haynes, Education Coach and Consultant who was written the book College is Not Mandatory which provides parents with the tools they need to introduce and discuss different options so their teens can step confidently into their future after high school. She provides us moms with teenagers a wealth of information to help support our children in this next phase of life. Let’s listen in:
She is offering a virtual Launch on Sept 30th in the FB group College is Not Mandatory.
You can find her on FB, IG, and Twitter as EdCoachStephHaynes
and head to her website www.stephaniehaynes.net for more information and opportunities to work with her.
Hi, I'd like to welcome you to raising healthy humans. I am your host Courtney, a personal trainer and health coach and the founder of formfit. a community where I help busy moms move more. As a busy and sometimes overwhelmed mom of three myself, I understand that it can be difficult to find ways to live and raise Healthy Families. It is my goal to help provide you with the information and tactics you need to help raise healthy humans. Episode 22 College is not mandatory. Today I'm speaking with Stephanie Haynes. She is an education coach and consultant who has written the book college is not mandatory, which provides parents with the tools they need to introduce and discuss different options, so their teens can step confidently into their future after high school. She provides us moms with teenagers a wealth of information to help support our children in this next phase of life. Let's listen in. Hello, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you. Can you tell me a little bit about yourself? Yeah, sure. So, you know, I live in Charleston, South Carolina right now. But I grew up in the Bay Area of California. And we moved here in 2002. And then Missouri in 2009. And then back here in 2017. So we've kind of been all over this general area, but I have my husband, I've been married 26 years now I have a daughter who is 23 and a son who is 19. So we've kind of made it into that next phase of parenting, which is its own unique phase of parenting for sure. Yes, yes. Yeah, I'm not there yet. But I can only imagine I do have almost 16 year old so Oh, you're close? Yeah, yes. And you have written a book I have I read it is not mandatory. Yeah. So it's actually a parent's guide to navigating all the options available to us after high school available to our kids. And I wrote it because I recognize that the cultural stigma is if you don't go to college, you're not going to be successful. And I'm watching kids wrestle with that on a regular basis who maybe don't like school, don't feel that they fit well with school want to do something other than fit in a classroom. And they don't feel like they can be successful. My own daughter is one of those, she was not very happy with school at all. She wanted to go to college, because what she thought she was supposed to do. And so she went through it and forced herself through it, and did not I mean, she did well she graduated, but it was not a good fit for her. And she'll tell you the same thing now. And now she's happily enrolled in cosmetology school. And so there's such a great need for a variation of what our kids step into after high school that I thought you know what, I don't think parents understand how to help their kid understand which way that can be. Because all they've ever been taught as parents is goes to go to high school, go to college, go to college, go to college, we have no idea how to help our child figure out what other option is best for them. So that's what the book is about. It's about all the other options. There are parent testimonies about what it was like to walk with their child through that choice. There are student testimonies about what it was like to be in that choice and to choose that choice for themselves. And then there's a whole guide at the back of very specific questions and conversations, and even how to structure those conversations with your team so that you're not feeling that there's this battle on this tension. And your team gets the opportunity to own what it is they want to do with their future. Yeah, I've been reading it. And I really love the questions in the back, I was going to talk to my son, in regards to some of the things that you had mentioned back there just to kind of see where he is with everything. I noticed that there was like the Myers Briggs test that you recommended, and then just really trying to hone in on what he's passionate about. Yeah. So yeah. And you get that that passion part is, in part fueled by the values that that your son has, you know, whether they're family values or values he's adopting on his own those values. If you choose a career that did against those values, or does not allow those values to be played out? Well, chances are you're going to feel unfulfilled by that career. So it's important to pay attention to those as well. Yep. And you had mentioned there are four options in your book. Can you go over those four options for us? Yeah, there's actually five so they're good. Yeah. And I'm going to kind of go over them with just briefly so one option is a community college which offers anything from an a degree to help you transfer to certifications. Step into a career and keep going. The second option is trade schools or even apprenticeship programs. And those are kind of the same kind of different. So trade schools usually 18 to 24 months, and you're certified so that you can step into a mid level career and continue advancing, which you might need extra education. but not always, an apprenticeship can start as early as 16. But you can also do adult apprenticeships. And these are some of the best kept secrets. Because if you apply for get accepted to an apprenticeship, you get taught the skills you need, you get education, usually, it's a college level education, even if you're in high school, and you get paid a scalable wage, which means you can earn a basic pay plus out, you know, a plus benefits or plus whatever, right, you get everything. And so when you're done with that program, you end up usually getting hired by that company, and either pay for your education, or you know exactly what kind of education to get to keep going in that industry. So that's the second option. The third option is taking a gap season. And many parents hear this and they panic. And so I wanted to kind of take that time in the book to kind of go over that to say, listen, it's not about letting your kid sit on the couch and play video games for six months. I mean, no way with any parent find that reasonable. But there are a ton of accredited gap year or gap season I call them programs that range anywhere from three months to 18 months, depending and they can involve travel, they can involve industry development, all kinds of things. The cool thing about them is if they're accredited, then they actually can use FAFSA funds. So if you've got to file your FAFSA and qualify for student aid, you can use some of that money towards these gaps using programs. And they can happen at any time right after high school or in the middle. Then then fourth one is the military right there in the middle people tend to overlook the military. And I understand the dynamic right now is not the greatest. However, the military doesn't only need fighting soldiers. If you were to talk to somebody who works on an aircraft carrier in the Navy, they need everyone from barbers, to doctors to all kinds of things because they're living on that ship for six months. So whatever you might need in a small town you need there, you need a chef, you need, you know, MPs, all kinds of stuff. And so I kind of go over that in that chapter to to give parents a little bit of peace of mind. That benefit though of that is it, the only option actually pays you to go and be involved in it, all the other ones you're paying out, the military actually pays you and then they end up paying you for life. So there's a trade off there. And then of course, the fifth one is that four year college that also includes the collegiate athlete, right? What if you want to be an athlete, you can go to community college and still become that professional level athlete, you can also go to four year college and do that, or you can stay there and do a bachelor's degree or Bachelor of Science degree and so on. So I was gonna say there were a couple of things that I noticed throughout one was like you had mentioned with the military, we immediately as parents were like, oh, because my both of my children have mentioned it. Both of my boys have mentioned it, my husband was in the army. So he's for that. But you know, as a mom, it just makes me nervous. But I was interested to see how you were mentioning all these different things that you could do within the military. And I think about my father, and he was radio tech. And so when Vietnam came about he went, and he was doing radio tech work. So I mean, there are some really great opportunities out there. Yeah, there are I mean, and you can do in a couple ways too, you can join an ROTC program and go through a four year college and and then enlist or continue on your work as an enlisted officer, right. So that kind of changes your level and changes your base pay, you can start in an enlisted position right out of high school. And then you actually get up to I think it's up to four to six credits per year covered by the military. So if you're in for a four year stint, which is generally the base stint that you can sign up for when you enlist, you can actually finish at least four to five classes, if not more, depending on your intellect, and then continue on afterwards, and they pay for it on the GI Bill. So if college is still in the future, but there's not a lot of financial support for that, this presents an awesome opportunity and you can enlist in a particular area. And I do recommend parents walk with their child into the recruiting office and that your child takes the time to determine exactly what they want to do in the military first, don't walk in and say whatever you've got, I'm fine unless you really are, make sure you're clear about what you want. Yes, and I liked that piece as well that you mentioned that because you think I don't know I never really thought of going into a recruiting office with my child. I'm not sure why my husband went on his own. So he went you know when he went in, he was infantry. To see that that was that also gave me peace of mind because you like you mentioned that there is pressure put on them to sign up. So it really is, you know, we went in my dog was interested in joining the military at one point in her high school career. And so I thought, well, we better go figure out this is all about because I don't know, I don't have any military experience in our immediate family. And so we went in and sat down with the recruiter. And we asked a lot of questions. And she knew the minute she walked in that she was not gonna sign up that day. So we were very clear. But there's a lot that they have to fulfill. And now as a consultant, when I talk with recruiters, they're coming in with a particular objective of positions and areas that they need to fill, right. So they're looking like any other job recruiter would be, for positions specifically, they need to fill. So if your son or daughter wants to join, and they don't have anything open for that, they can wait, they don't have to join right, then they can wait. Okay, perfect. And then, in regards to trade, that's another one that you mentioned. My father is a general contractor. And he will say that he goes into, you know, they have to recertify every year and he's like, it's nothing but old, older individuals like myself, that are there. He's like, there's no young people coming in, what are we going to do with the infrastructure of our communities. So that's a very valid Yeah, it's a very valid point, we have done so much to get kids to go to college, that we've neglected the trades and actually given them a negative stigma, which is detrimental to our, actually the fabric of our society, if we don't have and take care of those who take care of our homes for us, like I can't fix my air conditioning, I can't fix my refrigerator, I can't fix it, my cable goes out, I can't fix my internet, you know, we need people who are in those trades. Plus, if I want to have a table built I can have, I want to hire somebody who knows what they're doing. If I'm building a house, right now, I'm working with someone who knows what they're doing. There's no way I could build a house. And this guy doesn't have a college degree, but he has a degree and everything else, he needs to be able to do what he's doing well, that can be a huge benefit for a lot of teams who are one, either, they can't afford to go to college right away and do not want to do debt. So go to a trade school, it's a less amount of money, you can pay that off much quicker if you need to. And then you can work and put yourself through school if you need to. But it's also a benefit for those kids who really feel like I need a break from school. This is not where I want to spend my time. But I also want something structured, you can learn all kinds of things in a trade school. But there's I mean, there's just trains to go for almost anything you can think of. And so it can be a really great way to kind of take a segue from high school into adulthood. And is that were the apprenticeships that you mentioned as well, that was all within the skills and trade, right? Yes, that is all the skills and trade chapter. Mostly because the apprenticeships are usually built around the skills that you might need in a trade or in other kind of service industry. So think hospitality, think culinary, think cosmetology, mechatronics is a huge one right now. And that's a huge, I mean, that industry is just taking off right now. So there's a lot of need for that for sure. Now, in regards to the parent, if I'm thinking about myself, with my kids going off to college, it's that feeling of like, if they don't go to college, they're going to be missing out on that the enjoyment of going out and living on your own, and all of the college experiences. And even if for some parents who haven't gone to college, they miss out and they have like regret. So therefore they might be pushing their child more to go. What would you say to those parents? Yeah, you know, it comes down to assessing your child and helping your child assess themselves. You and I might be going, Oh, my gosh, college was so fun, you should go. But if your teens not into it, you're asked actually opening the door for some really negative experiences. Because if they don't want to be in class, what are they going to do? Right? They're gonna stick kicks, go skip out on class, not do their work, fail out, get involved in things they shouldn't be involved in, because they don't want to be there. So there's that extreme right. The other extreme is that they're there, but they're floundering and they're not really sure what they're doing. And those experiences then are then what they have for that college experience. It's not like you and I might have had, or like those parents might have had, there's no guarantee that your child is going to have the amazing college experience that you think they're going to have. COVID is a perfect example. My son's first year of college was devastating to him. And most of his friends did not go back. They're like, I don't want to deal with this. I don't want to have to deal with uncertainty and pay all of this money that colleges did not reduce tuition, even though they were all virtual, and many of them require them to stay on campus, but live in their dorm rooms. Who wants to do that. So it's not all wonderful sunshine and roses. There's a lot of hard work that has to go into that. And Are you really willing to invest, eat whatever money you have saved or have your child get into that much debt for something that they don't really want. And that's the kind of way I try to help parents deal with that. I might miss out. Because FOMO is real, it really is. But when you think about what you're really afraid of them missing out on, is that really relevant to their success? And if it's not, then you can find peace in that. And I hope that's what parents start doing. Are there things that I should be looking for in regards to steering him in a direction? Or any thought it would go? I do. No, no, no, no, no, no, this is this is the thing that I think we really struggle with the most is we think we have to be responsible for helping our teenagers figure out what to do with their life. But we aren't. And we worry that if our kid, our student might not do it that our team might just not figure it out. And so we go, we got to help them figure it out now, because they have to figure it out by the time they finish high school. So let's take a breather and go, Okay, wait, number one, they're going to be successful in this world in some way, shape, or form. It's not up to us to do that, because we only have a limited perspective of what their future could hold, they have to live it, they have to figure that out for themselves. So we can ask them those open ended questions about what they would like to do or what, what their values are, we can help them do things like the Myers Briggs personality test, or even the enneagram. And help them identify who they are, we can give them those kinds of opportunities, and then help them understand how to research to find out for themselves, what that looks like for them and how to put that together into a career. We can ask them if they want us to create an internship for him with somebody we know or create a job shadow opportunity. But if they say, No, don't push it, your child has to own this on their on their own, because you can't want something more than they do. So when they get to that point, you're like, Okay, wait there, it's senior year, and they haven't done anything yet. And you start to panic, Oh, my gosh, this is when you say to your child, hey, listen, you haven't gotten a plan, we're going to set some boundaries around you, if you don't have a plan figured out by the time you're 18, you're going to have to go straight to work. And we're going to give you three months to earn enough to move out. So that's the line that line that you're going to, what would you like to do instead. So you don't have to go there, let's have a conversation. So as parents, it's very hard to want to put limits around our kids, because we're afraid they might not meet the expectation, we have to follow through on that. And I get it to back that up and start talking with your child about what could they do with their life, not and remove the judgment that you might have, and do not suggest to them what you think they should do. Because what teenagers do is they don't want to disappoint you. So if you say to them, Hey, I think it would be so great as a doctor and you're so good with, you know, cuts and bruises and wrapping things, I think you can be really, really great with that. And then they decide, but yeah, I really want to do this, then they risk disappointing you. And that's not what you may need as a parent, you don't ever mean that you want the best for your child. So instead of doing that, say things like Well, where do you think you'd like to develop more skill? What kinds of things do you see in the world around you that you find interesting? Are there things going on in the world that you think, you know, have some kind of effect on you? Let's talk about that. If they're reeling right now from the way medicine is being handled, for example, maybe research is something they might be interested in? I don't know. But you start having to ask themselves those questions in regards to the research and things like that. How do you? How can you guide them? Because there's so many things that we don't even know like, I learned about new careers all the time. Is there anywhere we can go to start understanding what all is out there. You know, I would love to say that there's a comprehensive site that says in the book, I do include a couple of websites that I did reference in order to kind of take a look at. Okay, so this is a real career. What is the job outlook for this career? What is the average salary for this career? What is the general education that you might need for this career, there are a couple government websites, United States government websites that you can find and use, that will definitely help you legitimize particular careers. But I say that kind of lightly because we are in a season I think of innovation. COVID has definitely thrown a curveball into most people's plans. And we all have to start thinking differently about how to live how to do our jobs. And I think this could be a great time to help our teenagers recognize that, okay, we've been thinking about what you might do after high school in one way. Let's kind of look at all the different aspects for that. And what do you come up with? What do you see? They may be like, I'm not even thinking about you know, any trade school, I don't wanna work with my hands. Okay, then let's figure that out. What else would that look like for you? But I think it's a great opportunity for us to kind of let them innovate. My career that I do. There isn't very much there are many people who are education coaches and consultants in the in the world. I just kind of put it all together based on all the conversations I've had experience I've had the training I've had, it just kind of came together. That's an innovation. Your kids can be Just as innovative, and so maybe they're going to come up with something different for themselves. And what happens if you have a child that may not be very motivated to come up with these ideas? Mm hmm. Yeah. So you know, that comes down to you as a parent. And if you're, you know, married your partner, whomever you have at home with you. So there's not this divide and conquer mentality, the two of you, three of you, four of you, whatever that centered family looks like, need to get together and decide on some boundaries, okay, so we're not going to own this for him. But what boundaries you're going to put around what this looks like. I've had friends and clients actually, whose parents have said, okay, for the next three months, we are going to not ask you anything about your particular career. But at the end of three months, we expect to see that you have at least an idea or three of what you want to do, we will help guide you, we will give you some questions to start with, which is what the guide is kind of from, you know, we give these questions, go research, but we're gonna start having a series of conversations with you in three months. That's a long time you can do in a month, you can do in a week, you can set up those boundaries, where you're saying, This is what I want you to do, and I'm going to hold you accountable to it by having a conversation with you. And then those conversations, they should not be confrontational, take him out to dinner, go somewhere fun, go fishing with them, Go Go Kart, whatever they like to do, do that activity while you're talking about that particular next step. Because it is an overwhelming thought process. It is really hard to be thinking about what to do. And sometimes having something to do distracts them enough that they can be vulnerable enough to share. Okay, what happens you had mentioned as well like giving them a timeframe, letting them go out and do it, what happens if they fail. So you have to be careful how you define failure, true. Failure isn't the absence of progress. Failure is not doing not being able to take what you've done and move forward from it. So if you get to a point where your son or daughter didn't do anything, and you're having this conversation, they're staring with a blank look at their face, you know, and I get it, or the eye rolls and all that kind of stuff. Then you reassess as a parent group to say, Okay, this didn't pan out, what can we do now to help our child be successful and make that plan for themselves? When you start owning it? They're not going to show up for it. But you say, what do they need to do, and that may mean punitive consequences. I'm sorry, you didn't figure this out, therefore, no Xbox, I'm sorry to fill that finish that fill that out. Now there's no car, you know, I'll give you another week, and no car while you have it. And then we can have another conversation and try it again. It's got it, you've got to hold those boundaries. And that's a really hard thing to do as a parent. But when you hold those boundaries, and teach them that they have to meet them, and follow through with something, you're actually teaching that grit and perseverance and resilience that we actually want them to have as adults. So and when do you recommend we start working with them discussing this type of information? Yeah, I recommend just beginning the conversation sophomore year of high school. Okay, I don't think anybody should be talking about what do you want to do with your life to any eighth grader? seventh grade? Could I mean, come on? They're 12 and 13. And 14, do they really have a clue. And they're going to change so much, if you I mean, if you look at your kids, where they weren't freshman year to now is 60. They're very different kids. I was sitting with a woman last night at my son's soccer game, he plays collegiate soccer. And she went, Oh, my gosh, is that your son, she was his intake adviser when he's a freshman this year in college, he has dramatically changed. So we have to recognize that our kids are going to change a lot. So I think starting with a sophomore year, and just have general no pressure discussions about what careers are out there that you're interested in, or what are you noticing about the people around you talk to your kid about the job that you do and the different careers that you had, you know, let your everybody else in your family kind of share with that without inundating, right, it's not about every conversation should not be about this, then you start to asking them about what kind of work that they want to do. I think it's a great service for us as parents to give our kids opportunities to volunteer to work to whatever, even if we don't think they need the money, they need to have that exposure out in the world. So what can we help them do that kind of gets that and that starts about sophomore summer ish into junior year. By the time you plan that junior year, the conversation should get a little more serious about Okay, so we have about 18 months left before you graduate high school. What do you want to do after you walk across that stage? and leave it open like that and start having them think through that? Many of them don't think in those terms. They just think I have to graduate. But after graduation, it's like, you know, you know somebody is getting married and it's all about the wedding. What do you want the marriage to look like? Oh, I don't know. Same kind of concept. Right? Right. Okay. In regards to our children, how do we work with them so that they're not feeling the stress and anxiety of this because this, I feel like this weighs heavily on them, even if we are being very open with them and providing them opportunities, they're getting other information from their friends at school from if they are in sports, the people within the sports, and then also their counselors. So is there anything that we can do to kind of help ease their mind? Absolutely, you know, you get to be the safest place in the world for your child, and you're going to, they are going to run into people telling them what they should do all over the place. So my bet my best advice to you is to let them know, Hey, listen, I know you're going to hear a bunch of things I want you to know, you can come home and process that with me, and we'll help figure out that's the right fit for you. And I'm here to champion you in whatever endeavor you want to step into, and reiterate that as much as you can. Hey, I know that didn't work out for you. I'm still here for you. How can I help you now? ask those questions and let them know in every evidence, or every circumstance they're dealing with, from they don't do well on a test to they don't do on a paper too. They don't do how the class or whatever that looks like they don't do well on the field. Hey, I love you. I know this is rough. How do you want to pivot and do something different for next time? What does that look like for you ask them to start thinking about it. And that's how we can kind of relieve that pressure. The second way is to let them know that you know, just because you're graduating high school doesn't mean your life has to be figured out. Generally speaking, the next two to three years are all you really need to be thinking about. What do you want to do in your 20s? We don't have to talk about the whole rest of your life. I mean, we didn't even know what we were doing with our lives when we were at that age. So giving them that permission to say, Oh, wait, it's not about my whole life. It's just about one phase after I graduate high school, what I want to do that, that brings the world a little closer to them. And that gives them a little stronger framework from which to operate and kind of think through and process. Okay, perfect. If I'm thinking about children, you know, they need that time that gap year, like you mentioned, can you talk a little bit more about that, because I thought, you know, what I've always thought about gap years, I've always thought that it's like, oh, the child just wants to go off and travel on their own. But then as I was reading your book, you're talking about like different things that they can do. Yes, they can travel, but there's opportunities for them. So can you speak into that a little bit more? Yeah, for sure. You know, I think gap seasons are one of the biggest things that we could give to our kids, right to give them this break, and let them learn in a different way. And so gap seasons, I think have that misnomer of a whole gap year, which it is not, you can take off the fall semester, or you can take off a spring semester, it can be the middle of college, if you're interested in that it could be a summer before they go off to college. It does not have to be limited to this whole year. And one of the things that I want to encourage parents to do is to check out different programs. I have a client who knew for sure she was not going to college. She did not want to go to college, but she had no idea what to do. And like you said a couple of questions ago, she was getting pressure from all of her friends, why aren't you going to college? What are you going to do? And she was getting pressure from family members, not her parents who are very much in support. But other Why aren't you going to college? What's that look like? And so a mom and I kind of wish she kind of reached out and said can you work with her? And I said sure. So we sat down and worked and come to find out her dream her big dream she didn't think she could do because she you know how to do it. And it was too She wants to charter a boat for families to come have a week long vacation on the boat with her while she takes them around to do snorkeling surfing ecological tours. I mean, she had this amazing dream once we got to that place where she could share it. Well, what's the first steps? Like I guess you gotta get certified as labor? Where can you do that? gap season programs can she's in Costa Rica right now for still, starting in December. She'll be there for three months, learning the language, learning the culture and learn getting certified as a dive instructor. How else can we how amazing is that? And it cost her like a million that feels like probably a 10th of what a college semester would cost her. This is where we can get our kids really excited. If she decides she wants to get an entrepreneurship degree she can go to a community college and get that we just started with the first step and then she's mapped out how she wants to get there. And I think that's the biggest thing is we just need to take the time to explore or give our child that resource to explore and that's what it's been included in the book is different websites you can go to that are certified right you don't don't do the ones that are just out there. Whatever you got to find the certified ones for sure. Do the reviews for sure about them. But there's so many so many different things that you can do. Travel is part of that, but the learning that comes with it. I don't think you can get in a classroom and no matter what They do it can be a great benefit to them. And was there any of them that were paid? I feel like I remember seeing. Was there any pad opportunities for the gap one or no? generally not. Except that there are, it depends on how they're phrased. Right. So there's a couple of hotels, actually, even in Florida that offer what they call internships where a student will work through that, and they're paid, that can also be considered a gap season loosely, simply because they are learning a whole set of skills, if they want to go into say, the hospitality industry to do right. So you've got kind of some skill development, and that does look great on their resume for whatever else they might be stepping into. Okay, perfect. How can we get our children to have this growth? mindset? Mm hmm. Yeah, that growth mindset is is a such an important thing. And yet, it's the heart, it's the one thing I don't think anybody ever talks about, or teaches, the first way is to mentor it yourself. Absolutely model it and say, Hey, listen, that didn't work out the way I wanted. I really didn't. And I'm kind of bummed about it. But I think I can try different things this way. Be verbal about that, live out that growth mindset for yourself and assess that, do you have a growth mindset, or a limited mindset, and we can have a growth mindset in one area, but a limited one in another, they may have watched our child act out in ways we don't want them to act out over and over and over again, and we've come to believe they're never going to change, they're always going to be like that, we have that limited mindset for that child. So how else can we think about that child and model that for your child to when your child comes home and says, Oh my gosh, I'm such a failure, I suck at math, I'm never gonna get that I'm a bad English student, I'm never gonna be able to write all of those, you know, all encompassing phrases, we get to stop and say, wait, hold up. Just because you don't do well in math does not mean you're a failure. Why do you Why are you saying that? What does that mean to you? And when they say, Well, I'm never going to get good at math say, really? How about why not? Is your brain not going to function? So what can I do to help you learn better at Matt, how do you need this differently, and we can have that conversation, we can help them not necessarily love any particular subject, but at least understand that there's a growth opportunity here, even if they never think they're gonna use it again, you can still learn how to adapt and be able to be successful there. Well, I feel like with a growth mindset, it also provides a lot of opportunities for them to change this, as we move through life. Because I, I noticed that some people get stuck in that thought of, I'm stuck in this job forever. And then there are other people who move through and that it's just like one more step to the next opportunity. So having that growth mindset is a great opportunity for them to really, yeah, it really is, you know, and I think even younger kids, right? If you have a lot of listeners, I'm sure of young kids, that can be the one of the most effective things that you do that can help impact their choice for career later, right? Because we give them the opportunity to keep thinking, keep dreaming, keep shifting, keep rethinking, keep, you know, looking at things in a different way. All those things can really help them very young, like when they say they don't know how to, you know, they don't do a cartwheel Well, okay, so let's keep working on it. What else do you want to do is, you know, how will we want to approach this a different way? Are you using the left hand versus the right hand? How do you can think about this differently? And even asking them instead of having to own it, figure it out and tell them, because that's the biggest strain on parenting is we feel we have to do it all for them, instead of inviting them into the process. And then they have ownership, which only fuels more ownership ownership as they get older. And then once they're in two jobs, it's a great thing for them to be able to have just because employers look at that as well. So absolutely, I mean, think you're your own career, man. If we had limited mindsets in our careers, nothing would ever change. Right? I noticed that you offer workshops and opportunities to work for you, or with you. I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Can you speak to us about that? Yeah. So one of the ways that parents can work with me is to have me work with their child one on one, right. And that's usually the, it's not only it's not the most effective, but it can be depending on that child, right? That child likes to work in one on one, then we have great conversations, and it's great, but they feel like a little too much intense spotlight on them that can feel like it's too much. And so I do that a lot. The other way is to do one of the workshops. And so right now we're in the middle of one that we're doing live here in the Charleston area. But we started out live so that we can kind of watch how it works and refine it so we can start offering it virtually, just because we know that kids need something like this, but it's hard with different time zones of when we offer it and how that all works. So there's logistically things listed logistic things that are going on there, but worked really hard to equip parents to be able to do this with their kids for themselves. So signing up to get my newsletter on my website can be a great way to kind of get some information every month, just sent to you so that you can use some things to help you build your parenting. But it's not about you being a bad parent is always to the perspective of how can we help our kids think for themselves, when they get to that career path choice, they can do that. So that's another way I write some blogs each time, you know, every month, I do a new blog, all about how to approach this whole process. And so you can find that as well. And they're all on my website, Stephanie Haynes dotnet. Okay, perfect. Do you have anything that you want to make sure that our listeners know about? Yeah, Oh, for sure. You know, the book itself has, you know, we're putting it out is getting ready, it's out and you can buy it on Amazon, you can do all those things, which is fantastic. But I also have a Facebook group called college is not mandatory. And your kids usually for that this is an older parent. So if you have listeners who have eighth graders, and up, right, this is where I start sharing very specific tips to have help your child be successful in high school. And as a high school educator, and as a parent of a, you know, graduates of all this, and I've been in the school world since 1991, as a teacher, as a homeschool teacher, as a public charter and everything else, I mean, I've been in it. So I'd share that perspective. So you get the insight or knowledge from an educator about what it takes for your child to be successful. So that's another great thing to do. Coming up, I'm going to offer some parent classes to help you help your child do this. And there'll be released after September 30, which is what I'm doing now a virtual book launch party, we were going to do an in person, but I feel like the way things are going, I don't want any parent to feel they might carry something back to their kids. So we do this online virtual, just virtual book release party, which is so fun. And so you can sign up for that on the website as well. Okay, and these parent classes are those virtual as well. Yeah, they're going to be virtual, I would like to offer one in person, I think for the for locals here. But again, the way things are going, I just don't want to take that risk for any parent to get sick from being there. And I just I just don't want to do that. So I'm going to put them on there as virtual. And they're all different times because who you know, in different days, because we're all in different places. So those will be released, though not until after September 30. Okay, and college is not mandatory is the name of your book. Yeah. And is it out everywhere? We're on? Yeah, Amazon and Barnes and Noble for sure. Right now. Local bookstores least in Charleston area, carry it. But if you don't live here, it's you know, you don't really can't really get it. All right. I thank you so much for your time, this was wonderful. This is I just, it's so difficult. It's so hard. Because we we have expectations. Not that we're, you know, as a parent, not that any of us are requiring our children to do specific things, but we have thoughts of what we want our children to become. So it's very difficult as they get older, to really, like you said not not try to steer them in any one direction. That's really difficult. I've noticed it is easier. And I think I think that's part of the tension and parenting is that when they're little we steer them away from danger, we steer them, we give them opportunities to try new things. And we kind of do all those things. And as they get older, we're not quite sure how to transition. And so that's kind of the thing that we're that we're at when they get to high school. It's about transitioning now into more of a of a coaching role rather than a instructive directive role, right? And we feel like we're not being a good enough parent, if we do that. And that is the big lie is that yes, you're doing an exceptional job, when you help your child think for themselves, even if they fail, has nothing to do with you, as a parent has everything to do with their learning. They're trying something new, they're trying to figure it out, and failure is gonna be part of that process. What you can do then is help them learn from that failure and keep growing. And are those that become some of the greatest are the ones who just continue to fail over and over again, because that's where you learn. Yes, absolutely, for sure. All right. So thank you for having me. I really appreciate this. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to listen to our podcast. I know that Stephanie provided me with so many tips on helping to navigate this next phase of life with my own children, and I hope she has helped you as well. Don't forget that she will be offering a virtual launch on September 30. For you to join, you can go to her facebook group college is not mandatory for this virtual event. You also can find her on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter as Ed coach Steph Haynes, and her to our website, Stephanie haynes.net for more information and opportunities to work with her, I will make sure all of this information is in the show notes for you. And I do hope this helped provided you information for you and your teenagers.