E46: How to master your household money for family success with Pam of Money Mastery

Today I am speaking with Pam, a Money Mastery Coach, who struggled with her own finances for years is here to speak with us about how we can start to have mastery over our own money.  What is at the root of our money problems, and how we can teach our children about money so that they may have a more positive relationship with it. 


-Introduce yourself and explain why you started Money Mastery with Pam?

-Where do we need to start when it comes to having mastery over our money?

-In times like right now, how can we start to save or handle our money with the price of everything we need rising (gas and groceries)?

-Tips to help our children start learning now about having a positive and rich experience with money?

You can find her at www.moneymasterywithpam.com

or find her on FB: (6) Money Mastery with Pam | Facebook

Transcript

Unknown: 0:11

Welcome to raising healthy humans, where you as a busy mom can come each week to find information on health and wellness for your family. Enjoy experts discussing tips to help raise children through each phase of life. Gather current information on nutrition and wellness and listen to Courtney, a personal trainer, health coach and founder of form fit a community where she helps busy moms move more. Here she provides you with movement and posture tips while sharing information you need to help raise healthy humans. Today, I'm speaking with Pam, a Money Mastery coach. She actually struggled with her own finances for years and made the decision one day that she was going to take control of her money. She is now here to speak with us about how we can start to have mastery over our own money. What is at the root of our money problems, and how we can teach our children about money so that they have a more positive relationship with it. I hope you enjoy. Okay, well, I'm Pam Richardson. I'm a wealth coach and a financial educator. And I'd like to say it was a really easy access to become a money coach, but I'll be real honest with you, I was just a hot mess with money. And I have been since the age of 18. I was raised by a father who believed women didn't need to worry about money that a man was a financial plan. And I believed him. Between him and my credit cards, I did quite well and never learned the basics. And it really was a struggle for decades. I mean, I just didn't let it be a struggle. But if you had looked at it closely, I was a hot mess. And about seven years ago, someone that I love dearly told me that I was in their will and and I would be getting a significant amount of money. And I knew right then, I mean if there was ever a defining moment in my life, it was that day and I knew I could not dishonor their money like I had I received other inheritances from my parents. My father died when I was 25 got a half million in out. So I I knew that I couldn't dishonor their money, like I had other people's, that I was in trouble. And I needed help. And I didn't really know what that look like, okay, but I started researching and I ended up. I'm in New Hampshire, and I ended up with a financial recovery counselor in California. She happened to be the founder of the financial recovery movement. And I worked with her she also certified people to become money coaches. And through the process. I mean, it's not one and done. This is an all lifetime process for me. I think you can become certified with Karen and I knew that who better to work with people with money problems and someone who had walked in their shoes. So I became a money coach Dave Ramsey, Master financial coach and does not certify us but I have been through his program have been through coaches connection and I'm currently in Karen McCall's financial recovery, counseling. Yeah. Okay. So you weren't like an accountant or anything prior to this point. You were just struggling with money and realized you had to take control of this, right? I mean, I have I'm well educated. I had an MBA coming into this, you would think an MBA master's in business administration would know how income and outgo works. Uh huh. Um, I know, I just don't practice it. Right. You didn't back then. And it took having this inheritance. Yes. Okay. are being told about it that it was a possibility it would be they had to die first. Right. Okay. Right. And before this, you just spent money frivolously? Yeah, just didn't matter. Well, so what I learned in the coaching is that money it's never when you have a problem with money. It's never about the money. Right? Right. Karen McCall would say to me, you can never get enough of what you don't need. So my going to Talbots and buying all my clothing, my going, you would upset me. And rather than deal with my emotions, I would go to the bookstore and I can spend hundreds of dollars in one hour. And for some people, they would be like, how can you spend this much money? Oh, it's easy. 5000 in a weekend, not difficult. Okay, so I'm just I'm thinking here. So This was something emotionally within that you were dealing with. Oh, yeah. I think for a lot of us who have money problems, don't get me wrong. Not everybody is as significantly wounded as I was when it came to their money. But if you've been raised in an environment where you're never good enough, or you're not, you never receive the love and affection that you need, you are going to get that someplace and my choice of drug was shopping. Okay. And it didn't matter whether I had the money or not, I was going to soothe the wounds that way. Okay, so this is something I'm thinking about one myself, but if we are, does it have to be shopping? Does it have to be shopping specific? Because I'm not one who? Okay, yeah, so not shopping specific. How else might we realize that we have these problems? As far as money goes? Uh huh. I mean, because we we act out in other ways we can. We can be a drug addict. Right, right. No, but in regards to money, if we're not one who to maybe go spend money frivolously on clothing, like that, are there other little signs are okay, sure are, okay, what I would call subtle signs of sabotage, right? You have the money sitting in the account, the bills come in, you don't pay that, okay? People don't open them, you know. So if you haven't set up automatic payments, you might have the best of intentions. But if the underlying theme of your life is I'm not good enough, or there's some other trauma there or some other thought process, we are going to create situations to make us stay in the way that we have always felt. So if you have been a little irresponsible, that's what your messaging was your entire life, you are going to find ways to keep being irresponsible, whether that's making purchases that you can't afford, or that not being timely and your mortgage payments. People I know people who have the money, but just don't set up the systems to be able to be responsible with money. So that would be another form of acting out, you might not be purchasing things, you're just not acting in a responsible enough manner to manage your money. Well, okay. Okay. So where would we need to start? When it comes to this mastering our money? Where are you? Where do we go? Well, I think the first place we always start when I'm working with my clients is awareness. You just have to get aware of what's going on. Like, do you know how much of it sounds like a silly question, but do you know how much money you have coming in just because your HR department says they're paying you $82,000? That doesn't mean you're bringing in $82,000, you have to take out for taxes and make us think so Do you know how much is coming into the household? Are you aware of your expenses? So awareness is a big thing. And I was on a call earlier today, and we were talking about doing tracking? And who likes to do tracking, you know, you go out you spend your money. And that's one of the first places where I have people start is I need to know, I'm not judging you. Right. I don't care where you spend your money. But I want you to make an informed decision with how to spend your money in can you afford what you're doing? Right now? Right? And thinking about this, again, in regards to where we're spending our money? Are you having us kind of budget or you just the first, however long you just assess? Is that what you do? Right? That's the so the first step for me would be the assessment process. Let's talk about where you're at where you want to be right? And that's different for everybody. Right? Okay. I had a person just this past weekend who had sold a lakefront property and is sitting on some cash. Do they pay off their mortgage? Do they invest? What do they do? I don't tell them what to do. I give them options. I tell them this is what will happen. And we'll talk about the emotional side of it. There is you know, if you look logistically at something, it's a 3.5% interest rate on your mortgage, right, that's deep money, you should keep that there and invest the money. But the bottom line is money is emotional. Right? If you can put your head on the pillow knowing that your house is paid off and nobody can take it away and all you have to come up with are those seven to $14,000 a year in taxes because you happen to live in no tax New Hampshire that's worth its weight in gold right there. So it depends on you the individual You know, can you handle risk? Do you like security? Yeah. Okay, so you're not specifically saying you need to save first. That's okay. Got it. Okay. But we do say, we do say that you can if you're in debt, okay, so some people do carry a significant amount of debt, we do say that you can save your way out of debt saving is a muscle and a muscle that needs to be built dead. A lot of people have that muscle already under control. And the only way they're going to get out of debt is if they save for it, because what will happen is, you know, you have your, your monthly budget. Uh huh. The tires are gonna blow the roof is going to need to end if your Christmas comes for those of us who are Christian, it comes every year on December 25. That is a surprise to a lot of people. But if you plan ahead, that money's there, it's called a periodic expense. So we make sure that going forward, all of those expenses that could incur are there and they're still going to be surprises, right? No, but we want yeah, no, go. Go ahead. Keep going. Sorry. Just say we want to make sure that your income is coming in your expenses are what they are, but that you're well poised for when those surprises happen. Okay, that you're not using your credit card to support your lifestyle. Okay. Okay. So if I'm thinking about, I have debt, I have a savings account, I have my monthly expenses. And a person who might get in the habit of when something comes in, you know, you always hear you should always have a savings account at this amount. But would you would you then recommend if something happens, something, you know, one of those things that occurs that we're not expecting? Do you then recommend pulling from that savings account? Over the credit card? Right? Well, so that's where working with people individually is really great, right? Because you might be the type where I would say, Yeah, take that out of your savings account. I had a man whose financial planner sent him to me, okay, okay, the couple made over a quarter of a million dollars a year, lots of money right there. But they only had$20. And he wanted to take a lump sum out of his 401k. This is why the financial planner called me, okay, why take a lump sum out he had gotten into debt and willing to pay it off. So we sit down, and I say to him, do you have any patterns of doing this in your past? Because if it's the first time you've gotten into trouble, yeah, take the money, pay it off? Correct? Course, correct. Go forward, he had had numerous episodes where the equity in his house paid off his credit cards, and inheritance paid off. He was like, this was number five. And I said, my recommendation to you is absolutely not. And here's why. You have a pattern of behavior, you are not correcting that pattern of behavior, and you, my friend, are not young anymore. You are running out of runway time, once you hit your 50s. If you are continuing to debt and pay it off, we're not going to work. Well. We might work until our 80s. Now, but I'll tell you, I'm 61 I enjoy my work, but the thought of having to be here on a daily basis would exhaust me. So you're going to hit you're going to run out of runway time. Right? So for him, I would say there is no way he should take his savings and pay it off. You have got to make life a little painful for yourself. To get yourself out of this problem. You have a problem and you need to correct it. Okay, so thinking of that individual, he keeps putting himself into debt, like he pays off his debt and he puts himself back into debt. Where does he need to start? He needs to start so the interesting thing was when we were having our initial information session gathering, his wife was there he had no clues of what his sneakers cost him. So that's just it's that's where you start you have the if you're a married couple, you have the conversation. You don't go his way her way or whatever way you just you need to come together and you need to be on the same page that hey, I've been I've been footing the bill for you and here's why or whatever. The bills are being paid but I have no money of my own. It's not fair and equitable. Whatever your conversation needs to be, you need to start with the conversation right there and you need to really work together and be on the same page if you can, and that requires you know, communication skills, patience, you interpreting, sometimes we interpret comments negatively when they weren't meant that way that could be a wounding for us, we have to just simply be aware of. Okay, so I think communication is really big in couples. And especially if there are children, young children, there needs to be some communication there regarding money secrets are really, really bad for money, and especially for children. Like I often think about the damage I did to my own kids who are afraid to spend money. So they've gone the other way. Right now. Yeah. So what do we do if we are in a relationship where the partner doesn't want to know anything about the money? Well, as long as he's not, or she isn't here, damage, right? Why do they need to know, it's not uncommon for one of the spouses to be responsible for the money coming in putting it into the checking account? I do believe in Yours, Mine and Ours, right. Not everybody does. That might not be a Dave Ramsey concept. But I personally believe in your as a woman, your mind and ours. So if the spouse isn't doing any damage, there's really, what's the problem? You know, if one of you is willing to step up and do the work and you love, like, I have clients who love doing the work, they just can't control the spouse. Okay, right. I guess. So in our household. My husband is the breadwinner, and I am the person who takes control of the money. And he started big spender. I mean, he he takes control as well, he, but when there are stressors, I guess for me, I feel like I hold it hold that burden, because he doesn't want to communicate it, communicate about it. So what would you recommend in that situation is yes, all is well. But there are times like right now, when inflation is going crazy. And things are costing a lot, especially I mean, for us, there's five of us, we have two teenage boys in the house, our food bill has become astronomical. It's worse than a mortgage payment right now. So like, and I feel that burden just getting heavier, you know, like, heavier and heavier. So what would you recommend for I mean, is this the sit down, have a conversation, it might be time to readjust. Like, if you have a spending plan set up and you have the$1,000 a lot into the food bill, and you're putting $1,500 into savings, now might be the good time to reallocate some of the money, I hear you, I went to the supermarket. For my my gas, usually it's $50, it was seven$70 per download. And going back to those days. I mean, shall pass. But in the meantime, it's going to mean we either have to there's only two things that you can really do with your money. You know, aside from all the emotional stuff, you can either increase it or decrease your expenses. Okay. So, um, in your search in that situation you just talked about, so maybe if you did have a designated amount going to savings, you just have to give yourself permission for a little while. Right, take less from savings and put it into the food budget, because that won't change and oil. My daughter called the other day, she's like, $600, every two weeks, you know, it's a lot of money for people right now. And this is not we did not budget for this. No, no, no. So we are coming into times that have I mean, I've definitely lived through these times, but they will be new for my children. And it will be challenging for them. Yeah, what would you say during this time, as we're dealing with most of us, expenses are raising tremendously. Income is not probably raising tremendously right now because of everything that's going on. What is there anything that we can do, like do you have any sort of plan? Is there anything you said reallocate savings, maybe reallocate some of the savings, depending on the job market and what the industry is that you are in? Some people can go back in and renegotiate and ask for some people want more vacation time. I can think of a couple that went and one of them asked for more money to be put into the retirement account. This was at review time. Okay. What would you like to see? So one individual said, I would like to see you put more money into my retirement account, another person in the same job. Right? Said, I want more days off. You know, they didn't care about the money going into the account. So if there's a review coming up, I mean, there's a part of me that says, Oh, my gosh, you gotta be really lucky. You got a job right now. Right? But right, yeah, you there are people out there who are going gangbusters, and they're doing really well. And now's the time to ask for a part of that to come in to your family. I hate to be trained. But the other thing is, is that you could look at side gigs, right, you know, that's huge right now. I mean, especially with some of the side gigs that you can do with the, like Instacart and things like that, where you can go out and shop for other individuals and drive for other individuals. And I mean, it really has there's a huge opportunity for side gigs right now. And you have to think what you're comfortable with. So my I was thinking about this earlier today, my neighbor up the road, I think they're gonna drive me crazy. They brought in a tree clear. Now we have to have two acres. It's a mandatory thing here in my town, you have to have two acres. So they here two acres. They put what are the units you put on the roof so the solar panels on their roof, they've got chickens out, and I'm like, if that rooster wakes me up one more morning, right? Like I'm pitching a fit about they've also put their house out as Airbnb now I'm like, dying here, right? Anytime a car drives by 90 miles an hour. I know where it's going. But my my attitude towards it is oh my god, stop, right like chickens really, I gotta wake up to this has a great attitude. He's like him. They're trying to make a living. Mm hmm. Airbnb, put solar panels on, get chickens in your yard, don't drive your neighbor's crazy. Now another neighbor, we have a community email. So we email anybody interested in shoveling? Because we're going to go to Florida, we're going to come to Florida. And if another storm comes through, like the last one, we need those 12 inches of snow to be removed. So a neighbor is picked up a job they're going to be coming in shoveling out are things dog walking? Mm hmm. You know, I mean, it takes some creativity, and then I watch Shark Tank all the time. I mean, if you're really lucky, you'll come up with a great gizmo right up for millions and is one to deal with the millions well, you'll be all set. Okay, so for our if we're thinking about our children, as well, because we want to make sure that we are raising healthy children and a lot of that how we raise them has to do with or making sure that they're healthy is also money healthy. So what can we start to do now to help prepare our children for life and all the excitement that comes with money and work and the rest of this is a lot of fun? Because children will listen to what you say, maybe that much, right? But they are little sponges, and they are watching you every moment. And if they have questions about money, like I used to write a check at the supermarket, and my daughter would be like, Why are you doing that? And I would never answer her because it was such a like, I didn't understand how to do it. So I ignored her and my daughter's 28. Now and we talked about it the other day, she was like I never understood what you're doing. But I couldn't looking back like I don't know why I didn't explain it to her. I guess I thought she didn't need to know I was taking care of her. She didn't need to know the details. But they do. But they ask you questions you need to be honest and direct. The other really important message that I'd like to convey here is what are you telling them? Like in a family if you say I can't afford that, that actually puts you in a power of weakness, you might not be able to afford it. But chances are you can, you're just deciding not to purchase that. So reframing that cont that word those words to unsure choosing not to spend that is so much more empowering to your child than we can afford it like they they take that message and they go and think oh my god, are we going to be out on the street next week or we're poverty stricken. The other thing too, I have a little story. I walked into Michaels one day and in front of me was a grandmother with about a seven year old daughter or granddaughter. Okay and the grand daughter was looking at some markers. And the markers were 1999. And the grandmother looked at the price and she said, I will not buy those for you. You are way too young for something that expensive. And she was pretty hostile when she said it. And it broke my heart because as a money coach who works with women, in particular, who have received messages about not being important enough, or what I realize the damage that could possibly be done to that little girl that day, when is she going to be old enough to afford a $20 set of markers? Will she ever right? Right now? Yeah. So you need to be if there's nothing else that you get from this podcast today is be really cautious with your words, and never make that child feel less than or inferior. Maybe you can't afford it. It's not your child's fault. Right. Right. So that that was that broke my heart. And I want to say, oh my god, here's the 20 bucks go by our Yeah, yeah. Well, and that ties into the, the feeling like you had said with the self worth is what we carry with us, and what that little girl may now carry into adulthood. Right, that we all have we all? You know, our parents all spoke to us, I'm sure about money in some way. Some positive, some negative and that has lasting effects. Yes, yes. As to how we handle our money. Right. Right. Like she may always it's one thing if you intentionally shop the dollar store, because that's the philosophy, like my daughter's a minimalist, I don't understand it. But that's the way she chooses to live. And she lives a really rich life. And one for all of us. I want us all to live rich lives as we define it. So. But for that little girl, she might not have a choice anymore. She might always shop at the dollar store. Because that's all she's worthy of. Yes. Yeah. Think about that for a minute. You know? Yeah. Okay, so. So if we're thinking, so we need to watch what we're saying around them? Is there a certain age that you recommend them starting to work with money where maybe they get an allowance? Or when should we start teaching them? You know, if you're always teaching them, you're always going to be teaching them, right. And when they start to want certain things, like I love what my in laws did, my in laws would go they had five children, okay, so they would take vacations, and they would say, Who here is going to develop the budget for our vacation, and one of the children would do the budget, and they had to think about all of the things that it would cost money for, for that vacation. I think that's a wonderful opportunity to get involved in for you to negotiate, teach the children how to negotiate. You know, in our world, we think men know how to negotiate women not so much. Do you know, women leave a million dollars on the table because they don't negotiate their starting salaries right at the gate, if they negotiated a higher salary, they would make that million dollars up over the course of their lifetime. But we come in in an inferior position. So I think, getting them on board. I, you know, I can remember, I was a deacon in my local church many years ago, and one of the little boys we were talking about money, and oh, boy said, I don't need any money. We're like, what? I asked for an allowance. And my dad said, I didn't need any I have him. Well, no, no, no, no, no. You need to teach those children responsibility and giving them a credit card when they go to college under your name is not the answer. Okay? Hard work to teach our kids to be responsible with money, especially when we're not so maybe we need to educate ourselves first. But having that little boy always go to his dad. Where's the autonomy in that? Just dependency in that? Yeah. So I think I highly recommend they have an allowance. I you know, can I tell you what age I really can't tell you what age I think when kids start wanting to have things that you no longer want to pay for. Okay, perfect. opportunity to introduce, here's your allowance, but set perimeters around that you know, like you will say 10% of every check you get for your birth They every allowance that you get, that sets them up for when they go to get their first job, then they know they have to pull money out for savings. Okay? You can also do tithing, you know, charitable donations right now, in saying when you said 10%, it made me wonder, do you have a recommendation of this percentage of your money? Your income should go to this? Or? You do okay, I do. But people don't listen. Oh, okay. I think if you can put 18% of your salary away, you would be golden. Okay, we're lucky if we can get people to do three 4%. Right, right. It's gonna say you saw my eyes like, go really well. No, hey, you know, don't get me wrong when you've got young kids or even kid you're looking at college and the next few years. So really different, like when you're young and starting out, stockpile as much money as you can, because there are going to be lean and mean years. Right. Right. Decades, actually. Yeah. And you know, what, as far as college goes, I'm also not a fan of in this might not go over well, not a fan of you underwriting. I mean, if you have the cash to pay for college, good for you. I hope you've taught your children lessons around money. But if you co sign a loan, no, no, that means your child can't go to college, and they have to find another way to go. I can't tell you the number of women who are stuck with student loan payments that their children defaulted on. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So when you're at the age of 6055 60, that is not the time for you to realize, Oh, my God, I got to pay student loans for another 30 years, right? Do you would you recommend that the child get a loan, a student loan? When you look at it, like I'm not a fan of CO signing any loans? I'll give my children loans, but there's interest and the lawyer writes it up? Don't have loans with me. Right? Um, but yeah, they have when you think about it, an 18 year old has the rest of their life. But if you're a 45 year old mother and you co sign your how many working years do you have left to pay off there? Then you might have the best child in the world? And they're not going to default on that until they do. Right. Right. And I happen? Yeah, I was gonna say we, you never know what may occur, and it may not be their what they would ever do. But you know, medical issues may come up, right, anything could come up where they would have to default. So, okay, so going back to our children, you had mentioned, like, don't get a credit card for your child, and you know, just have it all coming to you. Where you pay the bill kind of thing? Well, no, what I meant was don't wait to educate your child until you give them the credit card to go to college. Okay. Oh, okay. Okay. Um, people, you know, I did do that I did give my child a credit card under my name to help them establish their credit. Right. And so that if there were any, but they were criteria, she would call and she would ask before she used that, don't just give them free rein. Right. Right. Well, and I think it's important that they start to learn. That's one thing I'm sure you deal with this frustration as well, is, we're learning all these things in college or in high school. And my kids keep asking me, like, When am I going to really use this? And I'm like, Yeah, I'd never use that. And he even said, my oldest he's like, when do I learn about like, checks and balances of my bank account? Well, that depends on where he lives. There are only 17 states in the nation that require personal finance to graduate. There are some that require it 17 states in the nation require New Hampshire being one of them. You must have at least a half a credit for and a half a semester in personal finance. Oh, that's wonderful though that some are out there actually providing that if I enter in, I do understand like, I remember as a child, my mom sitting down with me and learning, teaching me how to do everything and I got a job and and I do expect to do the same with my children. I probably waited a little bit too late. But they do have where they all have their own allowances. They all if they want something at the store, they go purchase it day hand the money like I mean we are working on that type of situation where they do have savings accounts already and everything but as my son is getting older and going out by himself, you know, he's driving now he's able to go out and do things by His by himself. I'm wondering, when is it that time to get him a credit card and get him those things that he may need for emergency purposes and things like that? Yeah. How old? Is he? He's 16. Yeah, you might want to start thinking about it. I mean, I've heard of 12 year olds with credit cards, and I'm like, Well, no, I wouldn't do that. No, I don't know what other money coaches have to say about that. But I think oh, my gosh, that's just way too young. Yeah. But at 16 when he's out if something happens with the gas or something, or, you know, maybe there's a, that would be something I would be doing not really good, but keep feeling credit card off there. And that's not gonna make him responsible, right. You often say to my kids, do as I say, not as I do. Yeah, you want to start thinking about that? And I mean, he could he can apply for a credit card now. Right? And you know, what? You might not be able to get him a credit card until he's 18. Can we put his name? Do you know? Like? That's an interesting question that I don't, I don't want to tell you the wrong thing. Okay. Okay. I think we all should do some research, right? How young can a child be put on as an authorized user, I'm going to say they probably have to be 18. Well, I know like with our local bank, we have, I'm sure they have like a Suncoast, or we call it Suncoast down here, but they do have the opportunity, like all of my children have a savings account. And I think it's once they hit 14, they can get an ATM card attached to that. So we keep saying we're going to go get it, and we just have not done it. But I think that's a great way for them to start learning how to manage their money. And I do think I mean, it was much easier when I was a child because we didn't have ATM card. So it was if you wanted to do something, you had to write a check. And that I think is much more difficult to do than to just give your card over. You can just counting out money. Because it's that psychological. Well, that's the thing. I mean, if you go into stores now they're like, don't take cash, or they don't give back coin or money with the credit card or the ATM. It's out there like people don't ask, it's not tangible anymore. So it's a concept that you have to work with on that. And I think like at age 14, if you can get the ATM card then perfect. But that means that your education has to start with them right then. Right, right. No, yeah. Yeah. And then learning how to the ins and the outs, credits and debits and all of that. Having money in the account? If you do oh my gosh, don't get me going on automatic payments or subscription costs, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so speaking into subscription. Yeah. Do you have recommendations of how to kind of keep that would probably come into budgeting looking at your budget seeing how many different real eye opener for people because you don't even think about it. What Spotify? Oh, right. So Audible is only 1495. And Amazon Prime is only 1299 or 1399. And only and only and anys. Nick club is 2499. And well, I only have one habit and that's knitting. So that's okay. Pretty soon you're like $300 a month subscription costs. You're not even aware of it. Right? So that's something now I feel like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here. Because one of the things that I'm launching in February is money myth membership, where you pay monthly, where you pay monthly. But I'm going to teach you to look at all the other subscriptions and make a good decision. Yes, but that's you're teaching us what we need to know. With me. Okay, so let me know how can we learn more about you? Where can we find you? You mentioned this monthly membership. Are there other things that you're able to offer us? Well, I think so much of my focus over the last five months has been this membership. I've always wanted to bring together women into a community where it was safe to be an ask the questions about money because we don't we're not taught it and it can be embarrassing and shameful. We can feel humiliated that I'm 61 I should know this by now and I don't care what your age is. Let's just learn it. Right? Even if you're in your 80s so the membership Well, my business is Money Mastery with Pam, you're more than welcome to go on there, you should be able to sign up for what we call a discovery call if you just want to come in and talk for an hour and see if working with me is a good idea. The membership should also be out there if you go money master with Pim comm backslash Academy, we're calling it the abundance Academy, okay, because we are approaching money not just through the practical tactical, but we'll be doing it with mindset, emotional issues, going into the womb, just a little bit. Okay, okay. And that won't launch until February 22. But you will get on the waitlist right now. Okay. Okay. Perfect. And is there anything else that you feel that our listeners should know? In regards to money or children with money? I, the big thing that just is coming to me right now is just communicate and if you have problems, even addressing the issues, then then do something about that, whether it is picking up a magazine, Kiplinger or you go and you get a Suzy Orman or Lisa Peterson Barbara Hewson has some wonderful books out there on rewiring for wealth and sacred success. just educate yourself or you can hire money coaches like myself, if you want to do some deep diving, but I think just really communicate, talk to your kids, talk to them about what they would like for their lives and listen and share your hopes and dreams to let them struggle. They are seeing you struggle anyway. Right? Oh, identify it so that they don't get so afraid. Because we don't know what they're thinking. And they make up these stories, man, at least once we have our little stories. We don't let them go. Right. Right. Yeah. So what protects us when we're younger actually becomes our purgatory as we're older. So let's fix that. That was great. Thank you so much for your time. You're welcome. It's been great. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to listen to my conversation with Pam. I hope that it provided you some valuable information that you can take and start to work in your own household so that you may be more aware of your own finances. If you are one who struggles with money, I encourage you to look into her program. It is called the abundance Academy. And I will have a link in the show notes for you. This is where each month she's going to be covering a different topic with actionable steps that you can take in your own house to help you start taking control of your money situation. I found the information that she provided me valuable and I really want to encourage you to take a look at this academy as I think it could be so helpful for many of you in your own lives.