Ep: 44 Do you eat Organ meat? with Chef James Barry Founder of Pluck

Today I am speaking with James Barry, he has 16 + years in the culinary field started as a private chef cooking for celebrities such as Tom Cruise, Mariska Hargitay, George Clooney, Gerard Butler, Sean “Puffy” Combs, Barbra Streisand, and John Cusack. James started Wholesome2Go, a healthy, high-quality food delivery company that served under his leadership in the Los Angeles area for 8 years. Most recently, James launched his first functional food product, Pluck, an organ-based, all-purpose seasoning. It's the first of its kind and an amazingly easy and delicious way for people to get organ meats into their diet.
James is also a published cookbook author having co-authored the recipes in Margaret Floyd’s book Eat Naked and co-authored the follow-up cookbook The Naked Foods Cookbook. He most recently co-authored the recipes in Dr. Alejandro Junger’s book, Clean 7.

Here are a few things we discuss in this podcast:

What are the benefits to eating Organ meats?  Where do you source your meat from?

-How much do we need to eat of this to get the true benefits?

-I love my Pluck but I want to know how all I can use this?  Will I get the added benefits of the product if I cook it or is it more designed as a finishing salt?

-Tell us where we can go to learn more and how we can purchase the product?

Head to: EatPluck and use code: FORMFIT for 10% off

Transcript

Unknown: 0:10

Welcome to raising healthy humans, where you as a busy mom can come each week to find information on health and wellness for your family. Enjoy experts discussing tips to help raise children through each phase of life. Gather current information on nutrition and wellness. And listen to Courtney, a personal trainer and founder of forum fit to provide you with movement and posture tips along the way. It's our goal to help provide you with the information you need to help raise healthy humans. I'm so excited for you to be able to listen in to this interview today. So James reached out to me a couple of months ago about a product that he had created. And as soon as I heard what it was, I was in 100% hadn't tasted or anything. I knew it was going to be a hit. Once I tried the product, I was amazed. I mean, this is such a great product. I love it. And I want you to hear more about it. So today I have James Berry. He has 16 plus years in the culinary field. He started as a private chef cooking for celebrities such as these are big names here, Tom Cruise, George Clooney, Gerard Butler, Sean Puffy Combs, Barbra Streisand and John CUSEC. He started wholesome to go a healthy high quality food delivery company that served under his leadership in the Los Angeles area for eight years. He's also a published cookbook author having co authored the recipes in Margaret Floyd's book, eat naked, and co authored the follow up cookbook, the naked foods cookbook. He most recently co authored the recipes in Dr. Alejandro Junkers book clean seven. He just launched his first functional food product, it is called Pluck. Pluck is an Oregon based all purpose seasoning. It's the first of its kind, and an amazingly easy and delicious way for people like yourself to get organ meats into your diet, without having to taste all the nastiness of I mean, they're delicious. But you know. So I want you to listen in to James Barry. Oh, and make sure to listen in to the end, where I'm going to provide you with a discount code as well to try the product for yourself. Yeah, I think it's funny. I mean, I know that there was probably a clear path. But sometimes I just feel I just feel lucky that I created I mean, it feels almost divine in a weird way. Because it's so rare to create a new food product these days. That's not laboratory mate. It's just, it's just doesn't happen. Right. So the fact that I'm the first to do this is just kind of I even am stunned sometimes. But um, but but I think if I'm you know, if I really look at my journey, as a chef, I can kind of connect the dots. And I always loved cooking when I was a kid, like from basically age seven on and I really gravitated towards it. But I didn't see it as a career. For some reason. I just I didn't know any chefs. I didn't, I didn't. All I knew is that if you wanted to be a chef, you had to own a restaurant, that's at least what I assumed. And I was like, oh, restaurants are a nighttime thing if you want to make money at them and I don't want to do that I just at a young age of age, I very much knew I did not want that lifestyle. So it took me a long time to come around to just even embracing cooking as a passion. And it really it was 911 that kind of inspired that 911 was obviously the first really huge disaster that happened so close to home for me, other than like, you know, deaths and families and stuff like that, but I mean, you know, on a on a global scale, it was so big. And it made me audit my life. And I and I just I decided that I only wanted to do things that had heart that truly were things that I was passionate about. And so I audited my life I looked at things as Okay, while I'm doing this and I like this but I was substitute teaching at the time and I and I enjoyed teaching but it just I wasn't really into it as much in the school system. And then I said so I gotta I gotta get rid of that and I and I decided to go to culinary school. Okay. And I specifically focused on private chef at night. So I went to a school that was known for healthy cooking and private chef thing. And the reason is, is because one of my sensibilities is chef was like, I knew that Arab Americans in general ate very comfort food, like, but I also knew that most comfort foods are not healthy. So I was always kind of like, How can I infuse health into the things that we love? Because I didn't want people to feel deprived? So that sensibility carried me through culinary school and beyond. Okay, and so I've all I'm always looking at, like, how can I get the most nutrient dense foods into people's diets, but make it effortless? You know, so I originally had, I had ideas around bone broth of how to make that really easy. Because I always I really see a few hurdles I think people struggle with, we assume that we're gonna all love cooking, you know, because we eat, we're supposed to enjoy cooking. And the reality is, it's probably a very small percentage of Americans that actually like to cook, it's probably really small. I don't know what the number is. But when I talk to people, inevitably, it's like, you know, to two out of five people typically will say I hate it. I hate it. I don't know. So. So I think that's a that's a kind of telling of that, we can't assume that we're going to love cooking. And so my, when I think of well, what's going to move the needle someone's health, it's going to be something that is effortless, right? Right, something that doesn't require a new habit, maybe do something that you don't need to love cooking, like you don't need to spend hours in the kitchen, making it you know, things that include require lots of steps. So that that feeds in the effortless and then I and then I think it needs to taste really good. Because I think we you know, flavor is is is gold for us. You know, I mean, if it doesn't taste good, we're not going to do it very often, frankly, if at all. So those were the hurdles that I'm always looking at with food. And so I think it's those characteristics of my personality and my interest around food. And then lastly, I think it was becoming a father. You know, I watched as a father of two kids, two young kids, five and nine and a half because, you know, your half birthday matters. But so, I we had some experiences with both kids when they were really young, they got they got ShiGGa toxin, which can be very deadly for young kids and for the elderly. And it's kind of similar to Ecoli it's okay that and and what ShiGGa toxin did for them was that it made it so that they could not hold anything down. And so here I was, you know, my daughter was my youngest, my oldest got through it pretty quick, but my youngest was already pretty thin and frail. And it really taxed her like I had to leave for a business trip when when I thought she was on the other side of it. And still you can't hold anything down it's diarrhea and basically and throwing up the entire time no matter what you put in wanting doesn't matter right it just It's just scary as a parent and so I came back from that one day business trip so I think it was total two days that I was gone and she was skin and bones she was still experiencing it was so scary. And I just I think that was where the Inkling started to happen around plot because it was like, okay, my daughter can't even she can't eat anything right now and she's getting zero nutrients I'm watching her waste away so how can I get nutrients in her with it and bypass the whole like, taste issue or like the issue of picky eating? Right right right. And eventually she was able to start eating toast Okay, which you know we're not even huge bread people but she's like she could eat it so we were like go for it and yeah if anything it became this issue because she kind of got addicted to toast but here's here's now jumping to the future So had I had pluck then so now Plaxo pluck is the in Oregon based seasoning. It's got liver kidney heart spleen and pancreas in it and then I in and I I combine those organ meats those desiccated organ meats with spices and herbs to offset that flavor, right something you could sprinkle on at any point so you could sprinkle it on you know after you've cooked it you don't even have to know how to cook you could sprinkle on to go food doesn't matter it's gonna up the nutrients of anything your attitude. So So now with my youngest daughter when she has toast guess what she sprinkles on it? Oh really? Yes. Yeah. Love. I mean, they put it on everything they put on everything but like as a parent I'm like, Oh my gosh, had I had this then but I'm just but even now I'm just so happy because I can Get those whole food bioavailable nutrients that are in organ meats into my kids. And I do it. It's effortless, like, right? They don't they they love the taste. But they be they even if they didn't, unless you say I was a parent who didn't want to tell them what was in it, I could put it in anything and they wouldn't care. Right? Yeah. And you and you can't you can't taste it. Yeah, yeah. So if a listener is not sure about organ meats, what, why should we be eating organ meats? Yeah, it's, it's, it's a really valid question. And it's one it's really interesting because you think about it. Our ancestors ate it. And I'm not talking about our Paleolithic ancestors. I'm talking about our grandparents. I mean, like, our in for some of us, our parents, depending on how old you are. But like, it wasn't that long ago that people were eating organ meats. And so the question is, is why aren't we? Because it's not a foreign food. It's you go all over the world and it's in world cuisine. I mean, Mexico has got Menudo. Which is the which is the Menudo is the, the stomach, the beef stomach. Okay. Scotland's got haggis, which is actually a lot of things. It's like sheep or calf heart, liver, lungs, mixed with Sue it, oatmeal. And then it's in another season and it's boiled in the animal stomach, you know, so the UK is got steak and kidney pie. Ireland has got blood sausage, or also what is called blacks, black pudding. You know, France has got Pat Hayes. It's like, every other country is eating organ meats. But what happened here in the US what happened? And I have lots of ideas, but of course, no one really knows. So really, what I'm what my I'm campaigning for is for people to get back into eating organ meats, right? Just not like it's a newfangled food, like, Oh, you've never tried this, don't you know that this is something our ancestors ate. And so why do they eat it? Well, it's packed with vitamins and minerals, half full of them. I mean, I'm talking. I mean, basically like, well, I should say this actually, here's a number that's really key 92% of the US population is deficient in at least one or more vitamin or mineral. So right there, when you ask why organ meats, it's like, it's because we're all nutrient deficient in something. Right? So and clearly, we're not calorie deficient, because 73% of men and 63% of women are either obese or overweight in the US. So it's not a calorie deficiency. It's a nutrient deficiency. That means the food that we're eating is not working for us. So that's why we need to turn towards foods like organ meats, or I even like to say nose to tail, because organs are so much more than just, you know, liver, kidney, heart. You know, it's like, that's the predominant three that people eat. But you I mean, you really, when you look at an animal, they consider awful, which is another name for organs, which is a sad name. That's what people think it takes the negative connotation as to why we stopped eating. But actually so awful is O FF, Al, and what it refers to is the parts of the animal in their butcher in it that fall off. So that's where they think the name came from off, okay. Okay. And it really basically includes every part of the animal except muscle and bone so they count bone marrow as awful but not the bone. Okay, you know, so that that's, you know, like the tongue that's the feet that's the lips that's the all the organs that's the stomach's the thing, to me, it's just everything and so hopefully the audience isn't going, you know, isn't making that cringe as you were a little bit I call you out on that. No, yeah, no, making that cringe base. But so Oregon's have just an abundance of vitamins and minerals. Okay, so they're making, they have vitamins A, B, and all the B vitamins, which is really key Express, particularly b 12, which is something we cannot produce in our body, C, D, E, and K. It's got essential minerals like iron, calcium, copper, magnesium, selenium, phosphorus, potassium, and zinc. And what's key about these is that they are bioavailable so they're coming from a whole food. synthetic vitamins are not always absorbable and sometimes you can get too much when it gets synthetic. But when it's coming from a whole food source, your body can regulate it. Okay? It's just key so even like you know, there's fear of like getting tons of vitamin A right? It studies show that when it's coming from synthetic that is true. Like you really do have to be careful about it but when it's coming from a whole food store and particularly an animal food sources, it's it's not going too, so your body can regulate it, it can store it can release, it can do what it needs to do, because it under, you know, recognizes the food. Yeah. And that goes much deeper than what you know we realize is our body is designed to eat from nature. And it knows what to do during all of this. Absolutely. And that's why I like to call organ meats, Mother Nature's multivitamin. Because basically, you're getting all the vitamins and minerals I mentioned plus more. I mean, there's more than what I mentioned in things like for example, on the heart, there's Coenzyme Q 10. CO, CO Q 10 is like, basically what supports energy production. It's, it's, it's prevents oxidative stress. And it's cardiovascular health, which is also interesting because it's prevalent, as I said, in the heart, right, so that it also feeds into this idea that like supports like, right, so that the organ that you're eating is is basically it has an abundance of well let me say this actually, before I go into that, so organs there's a method organs, store toxins, okay, that is not true organs, filter toxins, and they break them down into water, salt, and so that they're water soluble, so they can be released into our detoxification pathways. Okay, this is really key when we're talking about like, supports like so let's say the heart or the liver or the kidney, those organs have a plethora of vitamins and minerals that are designed to support that Oregon, okay, so that that Oregon can do its job which is to filter and detoxify and get things so that they can really be released from they can either be broken down in your intestines or that they can be released. That's basically what you know, most of your organs are doing their their their their supply supporting your body to assimilate or or get rid of whatever it is right. And so heart is going to support your heart liver is going to support your liver which we mentioned vitamin A liver is one of the it's got the highest concentrated source of vitamin A, and that's retinal which is of course going to support reproductive health, eyesight, immune system and sports your skin. Kidney is high and folate, which you may already be noticing some of these vitamins and minerals I'm talking about. They're all in prenatals right? Yeah All right. So hello. Things that science is saying that we need to support life are in animal organs. So to me that says everything right there that's why we should be eating organs right? So you have created this seasoning right? To go on top of anything. Do you I was looking at your information do you I notice people do do this as well. They put it in there like say they're making meatballs or hamburgers I saw where people will put it in does it affect like with temperature? Does that affect the nutrients or anything like that? Yeah so so he heat no matter what is always going to degrade or or denature the vitamins because vitamins are not heat sensitive. However, they're not isolated vitamins they're and they're encapsulated in a whole foods so in a sense they are protected. Okay, right. So similar to what like similar to when you cook mussel meat right so there's vitamins and minerals and I must make the best way to eat I must have my is actually raw that's going to be the most nutrient dense you know dense way to eat that that muscle meat however people do cook it and they still do getting nutrients from it it's because it's a whole food now if that if that was like a synthetic vitamin that was in a capsule and that was left in the heat that had no protection it's going to Yeah, that's going to immediately degrade so I would say then with pluck because it is all it is is it's the organ meats they're freeze dried and powdered okay all whole food it's not cooked it's it's the free the freezing process in the freeze drying support you know any any issue you know any contaminants in what a we're not we're getting really clean organs from like grass fed grass finished cows from small farms so we're really, really keen on quality. Okay, that's one thing, but then the process of the freezing similar to how they do sushi, right sushi gets frozen for certain amount of days to ensure that there's, there's no you know, parasites or anything that could you know, get into but, but so that it's just FreeStride its powder even though it's a whole food and that it's gonna be better than if it was synthetic. I still do recommend that if you flavor your your recipe or your your, your meal with clock that you always finish with it as well, because you're going to maximize the nutrients, right you use it really as a finishing salt. And honestly, we did it around Thanksgiving we did like a Thanksgiving recipe guide, you know, giveaway and I was recommending, you know, a lot of times for example, when people are cooking a turkey, they put all the seasonings in it and on on the outside of it. And I'm like no, just cook your turkey. And then at the end, sprinkle tons of pluck on it, right, you want to maximize the flavor. And that's really the only way to maximize the flavor. And this has, I mean, it's definitely like you had mentioned it is like a finishing salt. It's delicious. So everyone in my house has had some of it and they love it. It really is something that I mean, I cuz I was a little you know, when you hear the organs. I've had good Patay and I've had really bad pet. Yeah. And so I was a little nervous with this. I thought, I don't know, we'll see. And we put it on our wings. We made homemade wings, and we put them on and everybody loved it. They're like, this is so good. It tastes like like a herbal salt. Is what it you know, you don't have that? What's the word that I'm thinking of that kind of irony that metallic taste? Yeah, yeah, that organs have? Yeah, you don't have that? Well, I'm, I'm masking it. Absolutely. With the organic spices. I mean, you know, really similar to how a Patay is made when you're when you make a Patay typically, you're putting in onions, you know, you're you're trying to, to kind of offset that tastes. So I just did it with spices and herbs. But I love hearing that. So thank you for sharing that. I truly love that I there when I was first creating the product, I remember there was this one person who I love this story, because it's really telling of how different and good and how people respond to it. So she had a dish that she was always making for a family. It was like a stuffed pepper dish. And it was like something she'd been making for the last seven years. And she had a kids in there and a husband as well. So it's a it's a family I think for and the only it was always kind of one of those dishes. We all have these in our arsenal like that dish that you just do every other week, you know, every week or every other week that you know is a safe bet. It's easy. You don't have to look at a recipe to make it you've been making it so long. We all have that right? Many families probably kind of like Oh, that's good. It's nothing amazing. And it's not bad, right? It's kind of middle of the road. Because they've been eating it so much. And all she did differently was she put pluck on it. That is the only thing differently and that night she told me her family was like, what what did you What did oh my gosh, this is so good. What did you do? And they're freaking out. And she's like, um, it's just this new spice I'm trying. And, and their response though, was what I hear the most. It's like that, that I think it's the mommy. I think it's the I think it's also the Oregon nutrients. I think it's our body's going like, I want more of this and I think it's your mommy. I think umami makes things taste better. It's the fifth taste. Our other four are you know, bitter, sour, sweet and, and salty. And sour. And umami is kind of savory, it's meaty, and it's just it. It's different. It's unique from the other four, and it makes the other four tastes better. Right? So I really think it's about that. Okay, what if I'm using this How much do I need to be using to get the added benefit? Is there a certain amount that I should be using this product? It's a great question because I think first and foremost, I am pro organ meats like so. So I know I'm peddling you know product and all that but I'm really what I'm ultimately trying to do is get people the organ meats. And and I'm really on a mission, I truly believe that we can change the world by eating organ meats, or like I said earlier, nose to tail I like to not even go beyond just the organs. It's like if we're eating nose to tail, I believe will not only support the environment, but will feel better and our bodies will get those nutrients that we're all deficient in, and then will then in turn once we're feeling better, and our bodies will then treat other people better. I really believe it's a it's a cycle that can make the world better. And so pluck is really about clearly there's a hurdle like there's people are not even trying organs, they're not even they're not eating them at all. So for me pluck is about okay, it's the gateway. It's not meant to be the only way you get organ meats. However, if that is how you want to do it, that's fine. But it's only it's micro dosing, so you're always going to get more of the nutrients more of the vitamins if you're eating a whole organ. Right, right. But so what you're doing is you're getting micro dosing through clock, plus frequent loop. Frequent use equals a cumulative effect. Okay. And so that's really what you're doing. So I advise people with pluck, if pluck is your main source of using of getting organs, use it on everything, like use it all the time, every meal, like when my family has family night with movie and popcorn, we put it on our popcorn, and it's delicious. It's like, I can't eat popcorn without it. Now, it's that good. When we order pizza out, we put it on the pizza, like, you put it on everything, get that micro dosing, and anyone out there, that's like, you know, it's just micro dosing, I don't know, if micro dosing really works. It's like, okay, well, let's talk about glyphosate. When glyphosate first came out and seen, Monsanto said, it's just micro amounts, it's not going to affect the environment or your body. And guess what, skip ahead to where we are now. And it's in breast milk, it's in our bodies, it's in the water, it's in the air, it's in the soil. It's everywhere, we cannot get rid of it. So micro dosing works, is my point. It can work negatively, and it can work positively when you're using pluck. So yeah, so I'm all for, but but like I say, it's a gateway, what it's going to support you with, it's going to get you those micro dosing, but then what it also is going to do is get that mommy flavor into your taste buds, it's going to support the adaptation of your palate, which is then hopefully going to inspire you to try other organs. Right. Okay. Oh, actually, I should add, because you did ask how much to use it? So the other piece to that I'm sorry, I just want to answer that is use as much as you want. Right in every meal. Like there it because it's micro dosing, I purposely did that. I'm not a supplement company. Right. And I actually I discourage people from doing too much self analysis, I really prefer when people go to someone who's an expert, who's testing them or whatnot, who's assessing what they specifically need. There's a lot of people out there just saying, well just get organs in your you know, just take the organ supplements and take these everyday take a to these areas like well, you don't know how much iron you need. Right? Right, right, I'm all about like, you specifically need to find out. So I designed Pluk, not to be a supplement, but to have a high enough amount of organs for you to get nutrients and vitamins where you were previously not, but not so high that you are pushing you into a danger zone if you use it all the time. Right. So that's really key of how it's designed. It is designed for you to use it all the time and be okay. Okay. And how long does it last? Like, the longer it sits? Out? The less the nutrients are effective? Is that the case with ease? Is there a certain period of time that we need to try to use this within? Well, it's I mean, that's true with every every food spice you know, everything has a shelf life. But so because this is freeze dried and powdered, or you know, freeze dried, the it has very low moisture, so it actually has a two year shelf life. Oh, but if it takes you two years to finish your pluck, then we're doing something wrong, right? I really I don't want pluck to be I don't want pluck to be like nutmeg, you know, where you use it once a year? Yeah, you know, I mean, it's like I, we purposely kind of, we purposely keep when we when you purchase a pouch of pockets, it's basically a little over 50 grams, which is like a third of a cup. So we're purposely giving you an amount that's not too high that it's going to take you a long time. But it's also not too low. Like we're trying to find that balance of like, Hey, you're going to use this and that this amount will take you know, between three and four weeks, if you're a family of you know, four, let's say okay, if you're using it regularly, and that's what we want, we want a high turnaround not so that we can profit would be because we want it to stay fresh. We want it to be something that you're you're constantly renewing, ensuring that it's not degrading, right? Okay. Well and that's one thing that I need to do for myself. I've put it up in the cabinet and I keep forgetting to pull it out. So I need to I was watching one of your Instagram videos and put it in put the puck sticker on and just leave it set it out on my countertop. I'm glad you bring it up. So we include so we're all about it does come in a pouch. There's a couple of reasons why we do that where you know, we're really trying to do good for the planet and there isn't really a great pouch yet that's truly environmental. All all food pouches have a layer of plastic because they don't want the food to be absorbed. orbed into the material, but we're working with our new pouches eventually are going to be made from stone actually. So it's a really cool product, it tastes or it feels just like the regular pouch, any pouch, but it's made from stone. So very little amount of water is used. And then it's more biodegradable than let's say, you know, current packaging, right. So that's one thing is we're really keen for the planet from a packaging sample. But the reason why we're using a pouch is because we're an E commerce site right now. So everything is shipped out. And if a you know, the fossil fuels that are used to ship things is is exorbitant. I mean, there's just it, that's where a lot of our issues are around environment. And so the lighter something is the more conducive towards less fossil fuels, it also means that we don't have to deal with breakage, you know, if we were using glass, it could break and then that means we have to then send another one. And now we're repeating more fossil fuel issues, it's heavier, things like that. So we try to keep it light. And by doing it as a pouch as well, we don't have to include any packaging, you know, any wrap around it or anything. So now we're using less material so that it's very conscious why we're doing that. But as you mentioned, we include a sticker. And that sticker is meant for you to reuse a spice container you already have because we all have them. We have more than enough containers, you know that we're constantly throwing in the recycling. So just use one of those pop that sticker on there. And then honestly, what my family does we have it on the counter treated just like salt and pepper. Yeah, yeah, no different. Okay. Yeah. And that's what it should be like. I mean, that's what it it doesn't taste there's definitely more of a taste than just the salt. But it tastes like a some sort of herb packet with salt. Yeah, I agree. To me, it's like, um, we get told that it kind of has that. It's, it's truly an all purpose. I mean, you can put it on any protein from fish to chicken to we've even put it in a wasters and super good. So you really can put it on anything you put on any vegetable that goes well with eggs. Anything with butter cups goes really well with. It just has that. Yeah, it kind of has a little lemon zest in it. So it's got a little lemony herb thing to it. But I find it's like Lowery's all purpose or like, old or what is that? Yes. Yeah. Old Bay seasoning basically. Yeah, it's kind of got that. That flavor, you know, that paprika, lemon zest flavor to it. So yeah, it really does go well with everything. Right. Yeah. Okay. So you mentioned that you like for people to start eating more organs? Is there one that you recommend we start with? Yeah, other than your pluck. I know. Like I said, pluck really is the gateway, it's just so easy, because you need to know how to cook. And as you mentioned, it doesn't taste like organs. Right. So so it is that gateway. But then next, what I recommend typically, is that people, there's really two options, you either can purchase some liver, beef liver, I recommend, okay. And, and well, I'm going to give you kind of two steps, because because it really you can go either way. So one would be to buy beef liver. And usually when you get it, it's frozen, keep it frozen. And then grate it when you're making like hamburgers or meatloaf or anything with ground meat, grate it into that round meat. And to start off small, you know, maybe do a tablespoon or two, like so for a pound of meat I would use at first maybe one tablespoon and then titrate up. But I find you don't want to go past like a fourth of a cup of using a pound 2020 to 25% of that can be origami. But anything beyond that, and then you start to taste, you start to taste it. Right. Okay, it could change the texture as well. So you can do that. And the reason I say keep it frozen is because then you're not overwhelmed with oh, now I have this defrosted liver I have to deal with. Just pull it out, grade it and then put it right back in the freezer. That's one option. Okay. And then similar to that option is to buy there are some brands out there that already have ground meats blended with organs and one of them is forces force of nature. It's a great blend. It's called their ancestral blend, okay, it's delicious. And once it's got like heart, liver, and I can't remember if it has another one in it, but it's it's it's ground beef, and you can use it for your spaghetti sauces, like I said, or hamburgers and you won't taste it. You won't realize it's in there. Okay, very similar. It's very similar to what I'm suggesting. It's just already done. Yeah, right. Well, and then it's probably also you can know that it's coming from you know, a safe Yeah, cow as well, like it's Yeah. Because I, I'm wondering if I were to go to my local grocery store and ask for what I would be getting. Yeah, it you'd want, you'd want to make sure I mean, if you're going to like a whole foods that most of those places sell it and Brian just want to make sure it says that 100% grass fed, okay, you know, if it says 100 per 100% grass fed, it's gonna be better, it's gonna be better than any conventional. The ideal way to do it is to you know, go to your like farmers market or your local farm and in talk to them and say, What are you feeding the animal? How are you raising them and get a feel for that, and then get it from them. And organ meats are really cheap to you know, compared to muscle meat. So anyone that's like, oh, but grass fed. Meat is so expensive, not not, not the organs. It's, it's sometimes, like not just half but even three fourths the price of muscle meat. So it's a lot more nutritious to Oh, yeah, I'm interested. But so the other so the other option, this is this is for the people that are like, Okay, I don't want to get a beef liver, I want to start I just want to go for it. So that option is purchased chicken hearts, okay. So chicken hearts are small. And you know, usually will come in like a container, you know, a little container like that now might be like, maybe, you know, six to nine hearts in there or something like that. And what you do is you can be doing the same thing, you can be making a ground, like a saute or spaghetti sauce some and just chop them up like you would almost a mushroom, you know, just chop, base it up in a small bit. And toss it in. Not all of them, but just some of them. And no one will know. No one will know because they're so mild. And if you chop them up small no one will think oh, there's a heart in my in my sock. Like they won't see that. It's a heart. So right, right, though, but they're really chicken hearts are very, very mild and Okay, no, the heart is the closest to the muscle meat as you can get because it's basically a muscle right? Sorry, the texture is very close to muscle meat. And you just want no people want no and it's got a really great taste. So chicken hearts are a good one. For people that aren't squeamish about having to, you know, chop up. You know the organ. Okay? I'm actually I'm gonna have to try this. Yeah, literally treated it. When I think about it. It makes me think of a mushroom because like when I throw mushrooms into a sauce, and I've diced them I'm not talking about slicing I'm talking about dicing the mushrooms. You can't tell it's a mushroom. Right? hiding it from your children kind of Yeah. And then in the sausage, just you just see little bits, right? Yes. But you don't think like oh, I'm eating mushroom. You just kind of gets kind of simulates really? Well. Yes, the dish. That's how that's how chicken hearts are. Okay, perfect. That's wonderful. Okay, so tell us where we can find you. How can we purchase the product from you. So you can find us online at eat cluck calm. And then you can find us on you mentioned our social media, we've got tons of content, just really good content about education, education around organ meats, but also recipes, you'll find recipes on our site, at the E pluck calm, but then the Instagram and Facebook are also the handles at each clock. Then if you want to find kind of follow me personally, I'm at chef James berry with an A, that's ba ROI. And I do different things in what flux does. But I do recipes as well. But there's very different. So I'm going to cover a little bit of everything that way. Yeah, well, and you also share a lot of different ideas that people that use eat, pluck, how they're using it, which is nice as well, so that you can get different ideas for how to use it in your own home. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I mean, it's been amazing. I mean, you know, I started this out our talk, you know, mentioning how sometimes it just feels divine, but I just want to say it's we come to an end like I just I feel so grateful not only that I was able to tap into something that created this, this so that I can bring organ meats into the family home and do it so have people to do it so effortlessly and deliciously. So that I feel very grateful for but the response has been amazing. And we launched during COVID I mean so that's incredibly hard when you're a online product food product that no one's tasted that no one knows what it tastes like. And the response has been just phenomenal. I mean, from people like yourself who have me on their podcast to talk about organ meats to the people buying it who are then sharing their experience so I just I'm just very grateful to our customers and our influencers that are sharing this because as I mentioned the My mission is let's let's save the planet and start eating more nose to tail I put like If my goal for this year my big, hairy audacious goal is to get a million people to try organ meats, okay, so I hope everyone listening will join me in that and and spread the word whether it's pluck or just some of the suggestions we discussed in the podcast, like, just, just try it, just try it and see how you feel. See how your body feels, I'm pretty confident you're gonna find that your body feels amazing. Excellent, thank you so much for your time. Thank you thank you so much for taking time out of your day to listen to my conversation with James. I hope you found all the information he provided in regards to eating organ meats and his product pluck valuable and would love for you to give his product a try. I promise you, you will not be disappointed. This stuff is truly delicious and can be put on almost anything. You can save 10% by using the code form fit. That's s o r m s i t all capital letters. And I will also provide a link in the show notes for you as well to click on and then just use that code for 10% off. Make sure to let me know in the form fit mom community if you get it if you tried it and how you like it. Make sure to follow James again. All the information will be in the show notes. He has a wealth of information, great recipes that he provides as well on his Instagram page. And again I hope you enjoyed it